21-22 lineup

[ousdahl]

History suggests it’ll be one guard and one big off the bench by March.

It’ll prob be like, Dajuan and JCL, cuz Jalen moves over, or Mitch/Zach if the matchup is bigger.

But maybe this will be the year we go deep. Especially for the proverbial mid-1st half when the benches are in, put Joe and Bobby out there, slide Jalen over, and hit the NOS

[twocoach]

I can't believe we still get to add Jalen Wilson to the team we have been watching so far. Holy cow this team is loaded.

[PhDhawk]

We had this same argument last year, but especially this year with an even faster/quicker team, I just don't see how a lineup with Mitch is a better lineup than one with Jalen. They're the same height and Jalen's the better rebounder and can start the fastbreak himself.

The 2nd half tonight should show how lethal this team can be in transition.

Agreed.

But I would say if we play a team like Texas or usc from last year I would like to see mcmack and clemence together.

Way too slow. Clemence can't play the 4 on D.

Not against a 4 out team, but the teams who beat us last year played 2 bigs and Jalen got worked over.

[Deleted User 863]

Have to wait until Jalen plays. Staff is repeatedly telling the media how much they want to run when Jalen gets back

Why do the running comments make you think that means with Jalen at the 5? Not disagreeing, just didn't get the same impression when listening to the comments.

Self flat out said it at the press conference after the game yesterday.

He said Jalen is better at pushing the ball in transition than the little guards (i took that to mean with the ball in his hands, for example rebounding and quick outlet pass to Jalen). He also said we maybe can also play Jalen at the 5 and get really fast IF defensive rebounding isn't an issue. It didn't sound like Jalen at the 5 was their main plan for him aside from Dave. We still are going to see Dave for 20-25 and Mitch or Clemence for 8-10 most nights.

I am not a fan of Jalen at the 5 for long stretches, but if we are talking about 5mpg or situationally against smaller teams then i am all for it.

We will blow so many people out this year that Self will be able to mess with lineups quite a bit if he wants. Which is nice.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I want to hear an argument of how Mitch is better at the 5 than Jalen.

[ousdahl]

I wanna see Jalen at the 5 against bigger teams. (See first half of Texas last year)

Hopefully it works well enough that we can dictate the matchups, not the other way around.

Let’s see some other team’s big try not to get smoked on the fast break, then in the half court have to guard Jalen from the outside in too.

Make them adjust to us.

[ousdahl]

I want to hear an argument of how Mitch is better at the 5 than Jalen.

Good keed. No ink. Play hard chart.

[Deleted User 863]

I want to hear an argument of how Mitch is better at the 5 than Jalen.

Going against tiny stoney brook type teams there isn't any argument to be made.

Post defense. Shot blocking. Screening. Rebounding. Those are things Mitch probably does better than Jalen if we are going against a team with a bigger more traditional 5.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I want to hear an argument of how Mitch is better at the 5 than Jalen.

Going against tiny stoney brook type teams there isn't any argument to be made.

Post defense. Shot blocking. Screening. Rebounding. Those are things Mitch probably does better than Jalen if we are going against a team with a bigger more traditional 5.

I don’t agree. They’re the same size.

Especially rebounding. What?

[ousdahl]

Mitch might play just a touch bigger than Jalen.

But yeah, Jalen’s got so many other assets - rebounding, handles, scoring. Just a more talented guy.

[hasbeen]

I want to hear an argument of how Mitch is better at the 5 than Jalen.

I asked for this a few times up thread a month or so ago. There isn't a good argument, at least available on this board.

Mitch looks better on the block this year, but I want to see how that plays out the rest of the season. He's a good shotblocker but not a good post defender. And he's not noticeably better than Jalen at rebounding.

Rebounding 2020-2021 Season.png (63.95 KiB) Viewed 434 times

[CrimsonNBlue]

I want to hear an argument of how Mitch is better at the 5 than Jalen.

I asked for this a few times up thread a month or so ago. There isn't a good argument, at least available on this board.

Mitch looks better on the block this year, but I want to see how that plays out the rest of the season. He's a good shotblocker but not a good post defender. And he's not noticeably better than Jalen at rebounding.

Rebounding 2020-2021 Season.png

90% of Mitch’s blocks are from the weak side leaving his man open for a layup if the loose ball goes to the offense.

[hasbeen]

I want to hear an argument of how Mitch is better at the 5 than Jalen.

I asked for this a few times up thread a month or so ago. There isn't a good argument, at least available on this board.

Mitch looks better on the block this year, but I want to see how that plays out the rest of the season. He's a good shotblocker but not a good post defender. And he's not noticeably better than Jalen at rebounding.

Rebounding 2020-2021 Season.png

90% of Mitch’s blocks are from the weak side leaving his man open for a layup if the loose ball goes to the offense.

That's true, but he will occasionally throw someone's shit who just blew by a guard which is helpful. He doesn't do it enough to warrant playing him over a superior offensive player and similar rebounder tho.

[Mjl]

History suggests it’ll be one guard and one big off the bench by March.

It’ll prob be like, Dajuan and JCL, cuz Jalen moves over, or Mitch/Zach if the matchup is bigger.

But maybe this will be the year we go deep. Especially for the proverbial mid-1st half when the benches are in, put Joe and Bobby out there, slide Jalen over, and hit the NOS

I read Bill's comments this season as saying that we're going to play two small guards a lot. Either Pettiford or Yesufu will be in the rotation. Might just be 10 mpg, but that's not completely insignificant.

Self doesn't have that much history with playing 4 out, so the 7-man rotation of years past isn't necessarily a good indicator.

Matchups will dictate it as well. TGF still played last year in certain games where we just needed shear athleticism.

[hasbeen]

This is all a moot point anyway if Dave starts acting less spazzy on the block since he will eat up so many minutes. But in the scenario where he's blowing ass or in foul trouble, I think it'll look like this:

Opposing team has a small lineup > Jalen at 5
Opposing team has a 5 that is skilled/strong on block > Mitch and freshmen
Opposing team has a finesse 5 or otherwise non-factor inside 5 > Jalen

[Deleted User 863]

I think it's a safe assumption that Mitch gets equal to or more minutes than Jalen at the 5. Which is about 8-10mpg for Mitch. Jalen might play the 5 occasionally, but i don't envision it being something like 15mpg. Maybe 5mpg? Maybe i am totally wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Either way, the path to this team being elite is with Dave at the 5 the majority of the time, not Jalen.

[Mjl]

Agreed.

But I would say if we play a team like Texas or usc from last year I would like to see mcmack and clemence together.

Way too slow. Clemence can't play the 4 on D.

Not against a 4 out team, but the teams who beat us last year played 2 bigs and Jalen got worked over.

But those teams had big 4s that were also fast. Greg Brown and Isaiah Mobley, right? I don't recall Jalen struggling with them that much on the glass or defensively. I can't imagine Clemence trying to guard guys like that this year.

[ousdahl]

Wait, not much history playing 4 out?

Have you not been watching the past 5 years?

It’s more like, he doesn’t have much recent history playing 2 bigs.

We’re more likely to go 5 out at this point. Look at this season so far.

[CrimsonNBlue]

This is all a moot point anyway if Dave starts acting less spazzy on the block since he will eat up so many minutes. But in the scenario where he's blowing ass or in foul trouble, I think it'll look like this:

Opposing team has a small lineup > Jalen at 5
Opposing team has a 5 that is skilled/strong on block > Mitch and freshmen
Opposing team has a finesse 5 or otherwise non-factor inside 5 > Jalen

Dave was at 23 MPG last year. So far, it's looking something like 25 mpg this season?

[Deleted User 89]

1) Pettiford still looks head and shoulders better than Yesufu

2) this was always going to be Ochai’s (and Dave’s) team no matter what transfer came in. they’re program guys and woulda been the face of this team barring anything other than injury