Jayhawks in the NBA

[Qusdahl]

and sadly, it’ll prob take us getting our ass kicked for Self to address it.

[twocoach]

do you really believe that dh and nt are the same player. or are you just being you in an attempt to push content.

Sadly, you should go look at their stats. Woof. Tharpe was better at everything offensively. Just had more turnovers. Defense is a subjective thing so arguing it this far beyond Tharpe's playing days is probably pointless. Harris has great defensive moments and awful ones.

[Qusdahl]

I think Harris is better than Tharpe. Not by a ton, but better overall, and it helps that he's on a team that doesn't need him to score.

Yeah, he does take care of the ball better and generally play with more awareness and control.

And while we don’t need him to score, his 5ppg is maybe the lowest of any Self starter ever. (Trying to think who else was that low…Moody? Face Ass?)

And his lack of scoring allows defenses to gamble off him and guard everybody else tighter.

And it’d be one thing if he was some Rondo type dishing dimes left and right to make up for his lack of scoring, but is 2.8 assists a game is, again, almost half what Tharpe did on a short leash.

[twocoach]

and sadly, it’ll prob take us getting our ass kicked for Self to address it.

It will take Remy improving for Self to address it. I would put that as "likely to happen".

[Mjl]

Tharpe was also on a team that didn't need him to score. That's the difference. His dumb plays didn't always show up on the stats sheet, the same way Juan's hockey assists don't show up on the stat sheet, or half the possesion-saving plays he makes.

Dumb plays are really bad when you're an undertalented point guard with talent around you. Harris is light years better than Naadir for a talented team. But it won't show on the stat sheet.

[Qusdahl]

Just looked it up - as a starter even Moody scored more.

And that dood was a roiboi walk-on.

Which is to say, one of my favorite players!

[CrimsonNBlue]

I think Harris is better than Tharpe. Not by a ton, but better overall, and it helps that he's on a team that doesn't need him to score.

Yeah, he does take care of the ball better and generally play with more awareness and control.

And while we don’t need him to score, his 5ppg is maybe the lowest of any Self starter ever. (Trying to think who else was that low…Moody? Face Ass?)

And his lack of scoring allows defenses to gamble off him and guard everybody else tighter.

And it’d be one thing if he was some Rondo type dishing dimes left and right to make up for his lack of scoring, but is 2.8 assists a game is, again, almost half what Tharpe did on a short leash.

A lot of Harris's good things don't show up in the box score. And, that might both be a credit to and knock on him, IDK.

But Harris is loads better in transition and that is this team's key to eliteness. He also does get the ball moving on a team that can sometimes get the ball stuck in the half court. While I do think this board overrates Harris's defense at times, it is definitely better than Tharpe's.

Of course, I have been all aboard the play Remy train, but that's not this particular argument.

[twocoach]

Tharpe was also on a team that didn't need him to score. That's the difference. His dumb plays didn't always show up on the stats sheet, the same way Juan's hockey assists don't show up on the stat sheet, or half the possesion-saving plays he makes.

Dumb plays are really bad when you're an undertalented point guard with talent around you. Harris is light years better than Naadir for a talented team. But it won't show on the stat sheet.

How is that a difference? Kansas doesn't need Harris to score either. Tharpe was the 5th leading scorer his junior year; Harris is 6th this year. Their "needs" are pretty identical.

To me, the difference is that this is Harris' 2nd year playing that is being compared to Tharpe's 3rd year playing. If this year's Kansas team had next year's version of Harris playing then I think they would be much more consistent and not have as many scoring droughts.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Tharpe was also on a team that didn't need him to score. That's the difference. His dumb plays didn't always show up on the stats sheet, the same way Juan's hockey assists don't show up on the stat sheet, or half the possesion-saving plays he makes.

Dumb plays are really bad when you're an undertalented point guard with talent around you. Harris is light years better than Naadir for a talented team. But it won't show on the stat sheet.

We kind of said something similar.

I do think the shots were there for Tharpe because of how bad Selden was. Tharpe was, of course, unquestionably a better shooter than Harris, but his advantages pretty much stop there. It just really made no sense because we saw both Frank and Conner play better than Tharpe that very season, and against good competition.

[twocoach]

I think Harris is better than Tharpe. Not by a ton, but better overall, and it helps that he's on a team that doesn't need him to score.

Yeah, he does take care of the ball better and generally play with more awareness and control.

And while we don’t need him to score, his 5ppg is maybe the lowest of any Self starter ever. (Trying to think who else was that low…Moody? Face Ass?)

And his lack of scoring allows defenses to gamble off him and guard everybody else tighter.

And it’d be one thing if he was some Rondo type dishing dimes left and right to make up for his lack of scoring, but is 2.8 assists a game is, again, almost half what Tharpe did on a short leash.

A lot of Harris's good things don't show up in the box score. And, that might both be a credit to and knock on him, IDK.

But Harris is loads better in transition and that is this team's key to eliteness. He also does get the ball moving on a team that can sometimes get the ball stuck in the half court. While I do think this board overrates Harris's defense at times, it is definitely better than Tharpe's.

Of course, I have been all aboard the play Remy train, but that's not this particular argument.

And a lot of Harris' bad things don't show up in a box score either. He doesn't need to be guarded at all and the impact that has to the rest of the guys on the floor is tangible, especially if they have someone else out there who isn't a serious offensive threat.

[Qusdahl]

Yeah.

This team’s ceiling is in transition, if they’re able to turn a game into a track meet.

But - are we really doing that, at least yet? How often do we really score an easy transition bucket?

IS Harris loads better in transition? Is there a fast break points stat for this team?

And while I agree that Harris brings the intangibles, I also don’t know if I’ve ever seen a D1 guard who was less of a threat to score.

Like for real how can a guy drive the lane and be looking everywhere but the rim!

[pdub]

Moody, in the year that he started the most games in 05, averaged 5.8.
Jamari Traylor started a number of games in 2015 and averaged 4.8.

[Qusdahl]

Ohh, good call.

Finally found a starter with stats inferior to Juan.

And go figure it’s illy’s fave!

[Sparko]

Harris has problems finishing at the rim. He is a decent shooter if he can get his head right confidence-wise. I imagine in practices Self sees some things that we are waiting to see consistently.

[Cascadia]

Only Qusdahl can turn this place into a bunch of Harris apologists.

Harris is, without question, the soft spot on this team. The comparison to Tharpe is fair.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Yeah.

This team’s ceiling is in transition, if they’re able to turn a game into a track meet.

But - are we really doing that, at least yet? How often do we really score an easy transition bucket?

IS Harris loads better in transition? Is there a fast break points stat for this team?

And while I agree that Harris brings the intangibles, I also don’t know if I’ve ever seen a D1 guard who was less of a threat to score.

Like for real how can a guy drive the lane and be looking everywhere but the rim!

?

We've been getting out in transition all season. Latest example was . . . Monday night when transition buckets built the lead that we eventually blew. It is a big reason why CB's numbers are so much better this year as he is a killer in transition. Och too as he gets some of his best 3 point looks in transition. We are playing the fastest pace of the Bill Self era, even faster than 2018 (last I checked).

Of course, that's even more reason to play Remy, but Dajuan does fine on the break because of his vision and the fact that he will get the ball down the court quickly.

[Cascadia]

Ohh, good call.

Finally found a starter with stats inferior to Juan.

And go figure it’s illy’s fave!

The list of most overrated role players in the Self era starts with who? Probably Jamari…..


And I liked Jamari and his story but still.

[Qusdahl]

Well to be fair, I’m so confident about this team’s frontcourt either.

Now somebody give a guttermeter to the Q.

[Cascadia]

Jayhawks in the NBA thread being dominated by Tharpe, Harris, Moody, FaceAss and Jamari.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Only Qusdahl can turn this place into a bunch of Harris apologists.

Harris is, without question, the soft spot on this team. The comparison to Tharpe is fair.

The soft spots are the 1 and 5 spots on offense, and that gets really tricky in the half court offense.