OFFICIAL FINAL FOUR THREAD

[Deleted User 863]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cbv1jE8g ... =copy_link

[KUTradition]

Bilas on the FF and state of college b-ball (soap box)

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... atform=amp

[UnholyLivingDead]

I really thought once the women's game moved to 4 quarters, the men's game wouldn't be far behind. It's been a while now, time to make that change.

[pdub]

"It's time to get serious about physical on-court play"
I like physical basketball. I think players should be able to bump each other. It's a contact sport. If scoring is down, it's not the end of the world.

What IS problematic is the inconsistencies. If it's going to be called one way, try to keep track of officiating and speak to the officials that are varying from the standard. The game at Texas comes to mind here.

"Four quarters instead of two halves"
I personally like the and one. It's unique. But if they changed this, it would be fine.

"Charge/block"
Needs so much work. And I think by moving it back to being set at/before the gather, what Bilas suggested, would fix this, because you'd still have calls that would break THIS gather rule, and we'd complain about that, but at least you wouldn't have dudes still sliding their feet when the player was in the air.

"Advance the ball to midcourt late in games"
I like the way it is. Think of the 2008 Mario Miracle play.

"Widen the lane"
Meh.

"Bench decorum"
Fine. I think especially for coaches that are almost in the center of the court shouting instructions. That bothers me more than the yelling.

"Monitor review"
I'm for it - though maybe this rule would change in tournaments to 2 minutes rather than his suggested 1.

"In my view, universities should simply sign players to contracts rather than continue down this road."
That'll make pdub a BWW Chad when it comes to college basketball.

[Deleted User 863]

The block/charge thing is so tough. Because sliding laterally when they are in the air isn't always a block. The offensive player isn't entitled to wildly jump forward either. But college refs seem to suck at judging this consistently. It's different every game with every crew.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Just get rid of the secondary charge altogether. Takes the call out of the refs' hands, discourages a dangerous play, and we get more entertaining highlights.

Bilas's proposal for the rule creates such a narrow scenario where a secondary charge would even be called. Why have it at all?

[pdub]

I'm gonna use the word willy nilly here but I don't think offensive players should be able to attack the basket willy nilly with no regard of who is in the way.

It shouldn't matter if you're another player who wasn't originally guarding the guy - if he rams into you and you're just standing there, it should be a foul, on him.

[Mjl]

How would you define secondary? Just that it's a help defender? If so, I'm against getting rid of that, it means you can just run over anyone that isn't the guy directly guarding you, like, you would force defenders to actively get out of the way.

I'm in agreement with having to be set by the gather.

[jfish26]

I'm gonna use the word willy nilly here but I don't think offensive players should be able to attack the basket willy nilly with no regard of who is in the way.

It shouldn't matter if you're another player who wasn't originally guarding the guy - if he rams into you and you're just standing there, it should be a foul, on him.

That's silly gotcha basketball. The rules should not encourage this (and it is in fact dangerous to everyone involved that they presently do).

[Mjl]

I'm gonna use the word willy nilly here but I don't think offensive players should be able to attack the basket willy nilly with no regard of who is in the way.

It shouldn't matter if you're another player who wasn't originally guarding the guy - if he rams into you and you're just standing there, it should be a foul, on him.

That's silly gotcha basketball. The rules should not encourage this (and it is in fact dangerous to everyone involved that they presently do).

Help defense isn't " gotcha" basketball. It's a team sport.

[Deleted User 863]

I'm gonna use the word willy nilly here but I don't think offensive players should be able to attack the basket willy nilly with no regard of who is in the way.

It shouldn't matter if you're another player who wasn't originally guarding the guy - if he rams into you and you're just standing there, it should be a foul, on him.

Agreed.

They just need to get better at calling it.

[CrimsonNBlue]

How would you define secondary? Just that it's a help defender? If so, I'm against getting rid of that, it means you can just run over anyone that isn't the guy directly guarding you, like, you would force defenders to actively get out of the way.

I'm in agreement with having to be set by the gather.

That is Bilas's proposal. But this is a Men's Division 1 rule only. Practically, there's going to be almost no scenario where a secondary defender is set by the gather. Maybe HS girls should keep the rule, that's fine. And, it still doesn't solve the problem of refs being horrible at making that judgment call.

I want to see an emphasis on no-calls and then call defensive fouls where defender slides under late. Give defenders a lot of leeway on verticality. It encourages good defense and takes away dangerous contact.

Initiating contact with elbows, feet, knees, etc. (Dwyane Wade) would still be an offensive foul.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I'm gonna use the word willy nilly here but I don't think offensive players should be able to attack the basket willy nilly with no regard of who is in the way.

It shouldn't matter if you're another player who wasn't originally guarding the guy - if he rams into you and you're just standing there, it should be a foul, on him.

Agreed.

They just need to get better at calling it.

If it's too difficult for the officials to govern, then you need to look at the rule. That goes beyond men's division 1 basketball.

How is it that the women's game is better at adapting their rules than the men's?

[pdub]

"Give defenders a lot of leeway on verticality."

So basically, if I'm the secondary defender, if I don't cover my nuts and just hold my hands up Landen Lucas style, i'm good?

[ousdahl]

I’d rather a weak side defender try more to block the shot, than just try to slide underneath an offensive player who already beat the first guy.

[twocoach]

I'm gonna use the word willy nilly here but I don't think offensive players should be able to attack the basket willy nilly with no regard of who is in the way.

It shouldn't matter if you're another player who wasn't originally guarding the guy - if he rams into you and you're just standing there, it should be a foul, on him.

I have no problem with the primary defender drawing a charge (if they actually call it right which they rarely do). I do have a problem with how they allow a secondary defender to slide in there as a guy is rising up to shoot and draw a charge. They need to consider the shot "in progress" a little earlier and stop falling for the old "he fell backwards so he must have gotten there" bullshit.

[pdub]

I'm gonna use the word willy nilly here but I don't think offensive players should be able to attack the basket willy nilly with no regard of who is in the way.

It shouldn't matter if you're another player who wasn't originally guarding the guy - if he rams into you and you're just standing there, it should be a foul, on him.

I have no problem with the primary defender drawing a charge (if they actually call it right which they rarely do). I do have a problem with how they allow a secondary defender to slide in there as a guy is rising up to shoot and draw a charge. They need to consider the shot "in progress" a little earlier and stop falling for the old "he fell backwards so he must have gotten there" bullshit.

Right. Agree. Basically what Bilas is suggesting.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I’d rather a weak side defender try more to block the shot, than just try to slide underneath an offensive player who already beat the first guy.

The T-Rob block on Pressey is a foul under today's rules.

While I think that was a borderline foul, even under more generous verticality rules, I'd like to encourage that type of defense over white duke guy BS.

[ousdahl]

It’s more ref judgment, but maybe a weak side defender should have to be upright to be rewarded the charge?

If you have to jump in feet first at a 45 degree angle to get under a offensive player already going up, that’s not good basketball

[Mjl]

I'm gonna use the word willy nilly here but I don't think offensive players should be able to attack the basket willy nilly with no regard of who is in the way.

It shouldn't matter if you're another player who wasn't originally guarding the guy - if he rams into you and you're just standing there, it should be a foul, on him.

I have no problem with the primary defender drawing a charge (if they actually call it right which they rarely do). I do have a problem with how they allow a secondary defender to slide in there as a guy is rising up to shoot and draw a charge. They need to consider the shot "in progress" a little earlier and stop falling for the old "he fell backwards so he must have gotten there" bullshit.

You're combining the two things. I don't care if it's the primary defender or secondary, it's a team sport.

But the "slide in there as the guy is rising to shoot" seems to have pretty universal agreement in that it needs to be called a block.