Israel/Palestine

[MICHHAWK]

when you are mixing it up with the radical mooslimb. is it possible to fight "too" dirty.

me thinks not.

[ousdahl]

once again, mich saying the quiet part out loud.

we haven't seen this much islamophobia in the mainstream since, like, Iraq?

aaand look how that worked out.

[pdub]

I think anyone associated with Hamas should die/suffer.
I'm not Islamophobic.
I used to go a service in Providence bi-weekly.

It's very shitty that innocents will suffer.
This world can be very shitty.

[ousdahl]

I wonder how many hospital patients can just up and leave on two hours notice

https://x.com/msf/status/17128868928850 ... 8ZiR9WCcTg

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

This is real life and real life, unfortunately, means war, because things aren't fair and people hold strong hatred towards each other when things aren't.

So unfortunately this means Israel should retaliate and kill people.
We don't live in a world where you hold hands with someone after they punched you in the face, sorry Jesdahl.

well, if someone punches you in the face, sure it's maybe not an appropriate response to hold hands with them after.

but what IS?

Are you allowed to punch their face back?

Are you allowed punch their face back and also to bomb them and their entire community of 2 million (mostly children), already enclosed by fences and guards, bomb civilian residences, bomb houses of worship, bomb hospitals, cut off their food water energy, command them to evacuate even tho they really have nowhere to go, attack them along the few travel route options they have to evacuate, bomb the exit points that are closed anyway, bomb 3 other neighboring countries cuz fuck you why not, with no end in sight, and bombs paid for by you and me?

"bomb 3 other neighboring countries cuz fuck you why not"

For someone (you) who has actually somewhat educated himself (more than others on here will give you credit for), I'm a bit surprised you would say that. It's hardly a "cuz why not". I will give you that it's a "fuck you".

Moving on, at the risk of being attacked for sharing my sentiment, I'll say, I feel Israel's response in Gaza is worse than "excessive" - and yes I feel it's barbaric.
Which brings me back to the thing people are failing/refusing to think about. Hamas knew damn well this would potentially happen to the citizens in Gaza - and they didn't give a fuck. THEY were willing to sacrifice the lives of their citizens and in their sickness I wouldn't be at all shocked if many of them are happy this is happening - because of course it's making Israel look like shit in the eyes of most people in the world. I choose to blame Hamas as much if not more for what is currently happening in Gaza as I blame the Israeli's. As my words expressed earlier in this post, I am not going to minimize the extent of Israel's response but I am going to say this is a perfect example of what belongs on the FAFO thread.
I think Israel is expressing and showing the world that when they say don't fuck with us, they mean it. The saddest part is the innocent people who are being killed - on both sides.
War sucks. It's fucking sick that we humans feel the need to kill INNOCENT others.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I wonder how many hospital patients can just up and leave on two hours notice

https://x.com/msf/status/17128868928850 ... 8ZiR9WCcTg

Cuing randy with a - fuck 'em, they were going to (and should) die anyways. Or is that only old and fat people who had Covid?

[ousdahl]

good posts, gutter!

[randylahey]

I wonder how many hospital patients can just up and leave on two hours notice

https://x.com/msf/status/17128868928850 ... 8ZiR9WCcTg

Cuing randy with a - fuck 'em, they were going to (and should) die anyways. Or is that only old and fat people who had Covid?

Doesn't apply here bud that's just for old unhealthy people

[jfish26]

once again, mich saying the quiet part out loud.

we haven't seen this much islamophobia in the mainstream since, like, Iraq?

aaand look how that worked out.

One of the reasons I have not felt comfortable giving absolute, unqualified answers about any of this stuff is that the church/state paradigm in Israel and the rest of the Middle East is so fundamentally different from the founding ethos of my country. I don't think I have the experience or worldview necessary to even understand a culture and body politic where church and state are so inextricably bound up, not to mention not having the literal and figurative scars of thousands of years of persecution.

I say that, among other reasons, to point out that Israel might or might not be acting with "islamophobia," as you or I might think of it. I definitely think that, in the big picture, a rhetorical construct where "anti-Hamas" and "anti-islam" are interchangeable...is a rhetorical construct that favors one side of this conflict.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I wonder how many hospital patients can just up and leave on two hours notice

https://x.com/msf/status/17128868928850 ... 8ZiR9WCcTg

Cuing randy with a - fuck 'em, they were going to (and should) die anyways. Or is that only old and fat people who had Covid?

Doesn't apply here bud that's just for old unhealthy people

Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification.
I have to admit I don't shed a tear when young healthy Hamas members die.

[KUTradition]

i think it’s fairly easy (or should be) to draw distinctions between:

islamophobia

anti-hamas

anti-islamist

there seems to be a bit of conflation happening

[jfish26]

i think it’s fairly easy (or should be) to draw distinctions between:

islamophobia

anti-hamas

anti-islamist

there seems to be a bit of conflation happening

I agree. And who does the conflation serve? I'd imagine it serves those who want to paint Israel (and the West) in the worst light.

[DCHawk1]

what's an appropriate response here, particularly by Israel? Is the current response appropriate?

The de-Hamasification of Gaza sounds reasonable, I think.

ok, sure.

so then, where is that line drawn between Israel de-Hamasifying Gaza, and Israel just bombing Gaza completely off the map?

You don't appear to want any answers. I, personally, would take a different tack than Israel seems to be taking. But neither the Israeli government nor you much care about what I think. That's fine, in their case. They have more responsibility and far greater knowledge about the situation than I do. In your case, though, it's just annoying, stupid, and annoyingly stupid. You ask thousands of questions and then shit little rings around yourself when they're not answered as readily as you'd like or in exactly the same way as you'd answer them.

You really should think about touching grass a bit.

[mjl2]

Anecdotally, I know a helluva lot of Israelis, and I don't think any are Islamaphobic. They hate Hamas, and hate Iran. They generally hate Abbas too, but have no issues with Muslims. I'm sure there are some Islamaphobic Israelis, but it's not common.

It would be hard to hate Muslims there, you interact with them regularly (at least around Tel Aviv and Jerusalem). They tell you "Shabbat Shalom" on Fridays. They look like the majority of Israelis. And like Arab Christians.

Fish's lumping Israel into the rest of the region in terms of religion being such a big factor is a bit misleading. Israel has a 20% Arab population (Muslims and Christians) and they have equal rights under the law.

I also haven't heard any Israelis say anything negative about Muslims in the context of the current war. How did Islamaphobia even come up here? Just because Mich is Islamaphobic?

[mjl2]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... af83c20000

Saudis putting normalization on hold and talking to their enemy Iran.

Iran and Hamas have won.

Israel and the Palestinians have lost. Any deal with the Saudis would have almost certainly involved some sort of significant improvement of conditions for Palestinians.

Why can't people see how Hamas is the true enemy of the Palestinians here. There is ONE "bad guy" in this latest war (well, two if you count Iran).

They attacked knowing that it would result in Palestinian deaths. Israel is begging people to relocate, something that NOBODY does before attacking, and Hamas is ordering them to stay and be martyrs. And they have destroyed a deal that would have benefited the Palestinians. Hamas' evilness is just beyond belief. They're a cancer that needs to be cut out. And unfortunately that's going to involve killing a lot of healthy cells as well.

[dolomite]

Anecdotally, I know a helluva lot of Israelis, and I don't think any are Islamaphobic. They hate Hamas, and hate Iran. They generally hate Abbas too, but have no issues with Muslims. I'm sure there are some Islamaphobic Israelis, but it's not common.

It would be hard to hate Muslims there, you interact with them regularly (at least around Tel Aviv and Jerusalem). They tell you "Shabbat Shalom" on Fridays. They look like the majority of Israelis. And like Arab Christians.

Fish's lumping Israel into the rest of the region in terms of religion being such a big factor is a bit misleading. Israel has a 20% Arab population (Muslims and Christians) and they have equal rights under the law.

I also haven't heard any Israelis say anything negative about Muslims in the context of the current war. How did Islamaphobia even come up here? Just because Mich is Islamaphobic?

There has to be a distinction between peaceful Islamic (Gaza civilians)and radical Islamic people, i.e. Hamas, Hezbollah etc …
Hamas has bitten off more than they can chew. The Israeli navy commandos and the IDF will make quick work of dispensing with cowardly Hamas and collapsing their tunnels.
And then what’s to become of the innocents, the Gaza civilians?

[Shirley]

Anecdotally, I know a helluva lot of Israelis, and I don't think any are Islamaphobic. They hate Hamas, and hate Iran. They generally hate Abbas too, but have no issues with Muslims. I'm sure there are some Islamaphobic Israelis, but it's not common.

It would be hard to hate Muslims there, you interact with them regularly (at least around Tel Aviv and Jerusalem). They tell you "Shabbat Shalom" on Fridays. They look like the majority of Israelis. And like Arab Christians.

Fish's lumping Israel into the rest of the region in terms of religion being such a big factor is a bit misleading. Israel has a 20% Arab population (Muslims and Christians) and they have equal rights under the law.

I also haven't heard any Israelis say anything negative about Muslims in the context of the current war. How did Islamaphobia even come up here? Just because Mich is Islamaphobic?

There has to be a distinction between peaceful Islamic (Gaza civilians)and radical Islamic people, i.e. Hamas, Hezbollah etc …
Hamas has bitten off more than they can chew. The Israeli navy commandos and the IDF will make quick work of dispensing with cowardly Hamas and collapsing their tunnels.
And then what’s to become of the innocents, the Gaza civilians?

More's the pity, and I hope you're right, but I'll take the over of whatever "make quick work" means.

New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post associate editor Jonathan Capehart join Geoff Bennett to discuss the week in politics, including the war between Israel and Hamas, President Biden pledging U.S. support and the uncertainty surrounding the selection of a new House speaker.

[mjl2]

Anecdotally, I know a helluva lot of Israelis, and I don't think any are Islamaphobic. They hate Hamas, and hate Iran. They generally hate Abbas too, but have no issues with Muslims. I'm sure there are some Islamaphobic Israelis, but it's not common.

It would be hard to hate Muslims there, you interact with them regularly (at least around Tel Aviv and Jerusalem). They tell you "Shabbat Shalom" on Fridays. They look like the majority of Israelis. And like Arab Christians.

Fish's lumping Israel into the rest of the region in terms of religion being such a big factor is a bit misleading. Israel has a 20% Arab population (Muslims and Christians) and they have equal rights under the law.

I also haven't heard any Israelis say anything negative about Muslims in the context of the current war. How did Islamaphobia even come up here? Just because Mich is Islamaphobic?

There has to be a distinction between peaceful Islamic (Gaza civilians)and radical Islamic people, i.e. Hamas, Hezbollah etc …
Hamas has bitten off more than they can chew. The Israeli navy commandos and the IDF will make quick work of dispensing with cowardly Hamas and collapsing their tunnels.
And then what’s to become of the innocents, the Gaza civilians?

It's not that simple.
Hamas blends with the civilians. And it's not like the civilians like Israel and are waiting to be saved.

[DCHawk1]

It's not that simple.
Hamas blends with the civilians. And it's not like the civilians like Israel and are waiting to be saved.

Exactly.

Q bitches about Israel targeting hospitals, but that's the kinda shit that happens when Hamas sets up operational headquarters in a hospital.

[DCHawk1]

Sigh.

https://twitter.com/raz_sauber/status/1 ... 5656581263