March Madness 2022

[twocoach]

How many players have averaged 4 assists per game during the Self era? 5 or 6?

DH would be a star at Miami too.

Twelve actually. It has happened in every season that Self has been at Kansas but three so it is basically the floor for any KU PG, not an accomplishment.

Aaron Miles 03-04 & 04-05
Russell Robinson 05-06 & 06-07 & 07-08
Mario Chalmers 07-08
Sherron Collins 08-09 & 09-10
Tyshawn Taylor 10-11 & 11-12
Elijah Johnson 12-13
Naadir Tharpe 13-14
14-15 Frank Mason fell short, averaging 3.9apg
Frank Mason 15-16 & 17-18
Devonte Graham 17-18
18-19 Devon Dotson fell short at 3.5apg
Devon Dotson 19-20
Marcus Garrett 19-20
20-21 Marcus Garrett fell short at 3.7
21-22 Dajuan Harris

Sorry, but Harris has been by far the worst starting PG of the Bill Self era.

Thanks. Pdub already provided that.

DH is not "by far" the worst starting PG Self has had. But he's definitely at or near the bottom. With Tharpe and Hawkins....but Yesufu would be right there with him. Well that is if he was capable of beating out DH, which he doesn't appear to be so far.

Hawkins started just 12 games his senior year and is not in this discussion. Russell Robinson started 32 games that season.

Tharpe averaged 8.5 ppg, 5.0apg, 2.1rpg, 0.7spg and shot 37.7% from 3 and 43.6% overall his 1st and only year starting.
Harris averaged 5.4ppg, 4.3apg, 1.4rpg, 1.4spg, and shot 30.9% from 3 and 42.5% overall his 1st year starting.

Worse across the board that Tharpe except for 0.7 more steals a game. There is no objective measure that you can provide that puts Harris anywhere other than the bottom of the list of starting PGs under Self at Kansas.

[Deleted User 863]

I'm not ready to go all randylahey, but I don't think I am alone and just seeing things to notice that Yesufu looks much stronger, much more athletic, much better at attacking the rim, and more potential on the jump shot.

And I know it was Drake, but Yesufu has shown he can go out and shoot and score at this level. Dajuan's not ever going to have the potential to be a guy that can go out and get you 20, 30 points, because he's never been that guy.

But recall that this entire thing started because I said that I had doubts about whether Yesufu could ever put it together here, so I share your skepticism despite thinking Yesufu has more natural tools to give him the higher ceiling.

Fair enough.

Although imo Yesufu has shown he's probably not capable of getting 20 or 30pts at Kansas, at least not on a good Kansas team. Naadir Tharpe would have been a killer at a place like Drake.

[Deleted User 863]

Twelve actually. It has happened in every season that Self has been at Kansas but three so it is basically the floor for any KU PG, not an accomplishment.

Aaron Miles 03-04 & 04-05
Russell Robinson 05-06 & 06-07 & 07-08
Mario Chalmers 07-08
Sherron Collins 08-09 & 09-10
Tyshawn Taylor 10-11 & 11-12
Elijah Johnson 12-13
Naadir Tharpe 13-14
14-15 Frank Mason fell short, averaging 3.9apg
Frank Mason 15-16 & 17-18
Devonte Graham 17-18
18-19 Devon Dotson fell short at 3.5apg
Devon Dotson 19-20
Marcus Garrett 19-20
20-21 Marcus Garrett fell short at 3.7
21-22 Dajuan Harris

Sorry, but Harris has been by far the worst starting PG of the Bill Self era.

Thanks. Pdub already provided that.

DH is not "by far" the worst starting PG Self has had. But he's definitely at or near the bottom. With Tharpe and Hawkins....but Yesufu would be right there with him. Well that is if he was capable of beating out DH, which he doesn't appear to be so far.

Hawkins started just 12 games his senior year and is not in this discussion. Russell Robinson started 32 games that season.

Tharpe averaged 8.5 ppg, 5.0apg, 2.1rpg, 0.7spg and shot 37.7% from 3 and 43.6% overall his 1st and only year starting.
Harris averaged 5.4ppg, 4.3apg, 1.4rpg, 1.4spg, and shot 30.9% from 3 and 42.5% overall his 1st year starting.

Worse across the board that Tharpe except for 0.7 more steals a game.

Tharpe had more turnovers per game.

[Deleted User 863]

DH has 2 games with 14pts this season. He might have a 20pt night before his career is done at KU.

[twocoach]

I'm not ready to go all randylahey, but I don't think I am alone and just seeing things to notice that Yesufu looks much stronger, much more athletic, much better at attacking the rim, and more potential on the jump shot.

And I know it was Drake, but Yesufu has shown he can go out and shoot and score at this level. Dajuan's not ever going to have the potential to be a guy that can go out and get you 20, 30 points, because he's never been that guy.

But recall that this entire thing started because I said that I had doubts about whether Yesufu could ever put it together here, so I share your skepticism despite thinking Yesufu has more natural tools to give him the higher ceiling.

Fair enough.

Although imo Yesufu has shown he's probably not capable of getting 20 or 30pts at Kansas, at least not on a good Kansas team. Naadir Tharpe would have been a killer at a place like Drake.

Please, anyone who gets minutes at Kansas can get hot and hang a 20 point game at some point. Yesefu isn't going to average 20 but very few do. If he sticks around, I would fully expect him to have at least one 20 point game.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I'm not ready to go all randylahey, but I don't think I am alone and just seeing things to notice that Yesufu looks much stronger, much more athletic, much better at attacking the rim, and more potential on the jump shot.

And I know it was Drake, but Yesufu has shown he can go out and shoot and score at this level. Dajuan's not ever going to have the potential to be a guy that can go out and get you 20, 30 points, because he's never been that guy.

But recall that this entire thing started because I said that I had doubts about whether Yesufu could ever put it together here, so I share your skepticism despite thinking Yesufu has more natural tools to give him the higher ceiling.

Fair enough.

Although imo Yesufu has shown he's probably not capable of getting 20 or 30pts at Kansas, at least not on a good Kansas team. Naadir Tharpe would have been a killer at a place like Drake.

I don't agree with either of these things, but that's fine.

I do know that Yesufu has been in the program for like 9 months and Harris is in year 3. Let's see where Joe is at in 2 years if he is still around before we conclude what he's capable of here in comparison to Harris--you are the champion here at saying Ben McLemore wasn't actually a freshman.

[twocoach]

DH has 2 games with 14pts this season. He might have a 20pt night before his career is done at KU.

Yet you don't think Yesefu can put up 20....

Don't go looking to start a career of basketball talent analysis.

[Sparko]

Illy going full contrarian is like the sun rising in the east. Yes is faster, stronger and has a better shot. He has really shown flashes of tremendous skill. DH is about where he will stay. He is a complementary guard and great as backup. Remy is back and it has really helped.

[twocoach]

Thanks. Pdub already provided that.

DH is not "by far" the worst starting PG Self has had. But he's definitely at or near the bottom. With Tharpe and Hawkins....but Yesufu would be right there with him. Well that is if he was capable of beating out DH, which he doesn't appear to be so far.

Hawkins started just 12 games his senior year and is not in this discussion. Russell Robinson started 32 games that season.

Tharpe averaged 8.5 ppg, 5.0apg, 2.1rpg, 0.7spg and shot 37.7% from 3 and 43.6% overall his 1st and only year starting.
Harris averaged 5.4ppg, 4.3apg, 1.4rpg, 1.4spg, and shot 30.9% from 3 and 42.5% overall his 1st year starting.

Worse across the board that Tharpe except for 0.7 more steals a game.

Tharpe had more turnovers per game.

A Dajuan Harris three point attempt is viewed by most teams as a forced turnover.

[Deleted User 863]

DH and Yesufu per 40 scoring numbers at KU this season are 7.3 and 9.2. The more Yesufu plays the cloaer those numbers are getting. Yesufu is not an elite scorer at an elite level program like KU. Maybe he was at Drake, but this ain't Drake.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Illy going full contrarian is like the sun rising in the east. Yes is faster, stronger and has a better shot. He has really shown flashes of tremendous skill. DH is about where he will stay. He is a complementary guard and great as backup. Remy is back and it has really helped.

If Harris had a high ceiling, we would not be discussing Remy or Yesufu today or at any point this season.

[Deleted User 863]

Hawkins started just 12 games his senior year and is not in this discussion. Russell Robinson started 32 games that season.

Tharpe averaged 8.5 ppg, 5.0apg, 2.1rpg, 0.7spg and shot 37.7% from 3 and 43.6% overall his 1st and only year starting.
Harris averaged 5.4ppg, 4.3apg, 1.4rpg, 1.4spg, and shot 30.9% from 3 and 42.5% overall his 1st year starting.

Worse across the board that Tharpe except for 0.7 more steals a game.

Tharpe had more turnovers per game.

A Dajuan Harris three point attempt is viewed by most teams as a forced turnover.

And yet his 3pt % is higher than Yesufu's.

[DrPepper]

[/quote]
Tharpe had more turnovers per game.
[/quote]

And we know Self values not making mistakes a lot. Thus the playing time that DH got. If DH was throwing the ball away, taking bad shots, or being in the wrong spot, DH would have been pulled from the games over and over.
With Tharpe, there wasn't another option.

[Deleted User 863]

Illy going full contrarian is like the sun rising in the east. Yes is faster, stronger and has a better shot. He has really shown flashes of tremendous skill. DH is about where he will stay. He is a complementary guard and great as backup. Remy is back and it has really helped.

If Harris had a high ceiling, we would not be discussing Remy or Yesufu today or at any point this season.

Strawman.

Nobody said DH had a high ceiling. Just that Yesufu's is similar.

DH is "about where he will stay"? He improved a shit ton this off season. Why would that suddenly stop?

Me disagreeing about Yesufu being better than DH does not make me a contrarian. I've been pretty skeptical of Yesufu for most of the year. He didn't even start at Drake until people got hurt. Scoring at Drake does not translate to scoring at KU. We play big boy teams most nights. Not evansville.

[twocoach]

Tharpe had more turnovers per game.

A Dajuan Harris three point attempt is viewed by most teams as a forced turnover.

And yet his 3pt % is higher than Yesufu's.

He plays 9 minutes a game. I dont care what his stats are in 9 minutes a game with the rest of the bench guys. When Yesefu was playing 22 minutes a game he shot 38%. I assume that if he was playing 22+mpg here and on the floor with the starters more that he would shoot closer to that 38%.

[Deleted User 863]

I will say this, if Yesufu sticks it out, an offseason with our staff and the other trainers our guys go to work with could prove to be a huge benefit to Yesufu. Maybe he will look like a totally different guy next year. I want him to succeed here, i just don't hate DH as much as some of you.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Illy going full contrarian is like the sun rising in the east. Yes is faster, stronger and has a better shot. He has really shown flashes of tremendous skill. DH is about where he will stay. He is a complementary guard and great as backup. Remy is back and it has really helped.

If Harris had a high ceiling, we would not be discussing Remy or Yesufu today or at any point this season.

Strawman.

Nobody said DH had a high ceiling. Just that Yesufu's is similar.

Your direct quote was that Harris did not have a "low ceiling," so, you got me!

This was also in response to sparko and a statement meant to stand on its own. It's also true.

[Deleted User 863]

A Dajuan Harris three point attempt is viewed by most teams as a forced turnover.

And yet his 3pt % is higher than Yesufu's.

He plays 9 minutes a game. I dont care what his stats are in 9 minutes a game with the rest of the bench guys. When Yesefu was playing 22 minutes a game he shot 38%. I assume that if he was playing 22+mpg here and on the floor with the starters more that he would shoot closer to that 38%.

Much easier to score against Drake level competition. Agree? Defense impacts shooting %.

He plays with our starters plenty. Stop it.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I will say this, if Yesufu sticks it out, an offseason with our staff and the other trainers our guys go to work with could prove to be a huge benefit to Yesufu. Maybe he will look like a totally different guy next year. I want him to succeed here, i just don't hate DH as much as some of you.

No one hates Dajuan Harris. Everything is so zero-sum around here.

[CrimsonNBlue]

And yet his 3pt % is higher than Yesufu's.

He plays 9 minutes a game. I dont care what his stats are in 9 minutes a game with the rest of the bench guys. When Yesefu was playing 22 minutes a game he shot 38%. I assume that if he was playing 22+mpg here and on the floor with the starters more that he would shoot closer to that 38%.

Much easier to score against Drake level competition. Agree? Defense impacts shooting %.

It would make sense for Yesufu's points per possession, FTA's, and 2P% to decrease after coming to Kansas, but not necessarily his 3P%.