Let’s have a war!

[KUTradition]

straw poll at the mall

[dolomite]

On another note, doesn't seem right that Zelensky has to keep begging for enough military support to end the Russian onslaught.

you should buy a plane ticket and offer yourself up as a grunt

Thinking about it, but with my degree and prior service it would be as an officer.

[KUTradition]

cool story

[Overlander]

On another note, doesn't seem right that Zelensky has to keep begging for enough military support to end the Russian onslaught.

you should buy a plane ticket and offer yourself up as a grunt

Thinking about it, but with my degree and prior service it would be as an officer.

Please, don’t let that stop you

[TDub]

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian ... m=webfeeds


so.....not the nazis then?

[TDub]

rumors of chemical weapons dropped on civilians now. If thats true....so much for hopes of a quick ending without additional world involvement...

[jfish26]

rumors of chemical weapons dropped on civilians now. If thats true....so much for hopes of a quick ending without additional world involvement...

I still don't have a very good answer for what we/NATO should do. I do know that whatever is done should be done without any expectation that Putin will respect or even recognize proportionality/discretion/etc.

He's going to lie to his people about what we/NATO do, no matter what.

[TDub]

rumors of chemical weapons dropped on civilians now. If thats true....so much for hopes of a quick ending without additional world involvement...

I still don't have a very good answer for what we/NATO should do. I do know that whatever is done should be done without any expectation that Putin will respect or even recognize proportionality/discretion/etc.

He's going to lie to his people about what we/NATO do, no matter what.

I dont think there is a good answer for what to do or how to proceed really. Not without escalating this thing into a world war....which I believe is precisely what Putin has been angling for since the beginning.

Its interesting that a week ago-ish (?) Biden had said that chemical warfare, use of chemical weapons on non military targets would be a red line for him to intervene.....days later Putin does it.....I dont believe thats a coincidence.



*I should also note that this was a preliminary report issued from inside Ukraine. The US and UK have been supposedly trying to independently verify its validity. So, there's still hope this is misinformation.

[ousdahl]

You're projecting by saying "I bet mjl missed this" and accusing others of over-simplifying. You don't dig into anything so you're completely ignorant and then you just assume everyone else is ignorant too.

Sorry if that was antagonistic. I'm not sure what qualifies as "dig into anything," or at what point the digging is satisfied, but either way it's not like we're all a bunch of foreign policy experts.

What's the source on the iron cross thing? And even if it's there, that flag had shit all over it, no telling who defaced it.

again, my source is a bunch of lefty commie babes on twitter. They compare the cross on the flag to the Iron Cross symbol used by nazis. They also suggest the inscription reads "Cossack Hundred of Maidan," which is apparently some far right Ukraine paramilitary group. I've tried googling the nazi symbol and indeed found one that appears to be it, and also tried googling the cossack hundred of maidan thing, but found very little about them. Though admittedly, I try to avoid too much fascist shit in my browser history.

What's your theory about "no telling who defaced it?" Even if we aren't sure who defaced it, shouldn't the pope and/or his handlers try to vet that shit before waving it around? If I sent the pope a Ukraine flag with a sketching of a weed leaf and in inscription of "OUSDAHL RULES," you think he'd kiss that shit at mass too?

But other than far right tabloids I haven't seen an actual source on that.

Wait, did you just unintentionally admit you read far right tabloids?! That makes sense. And in the context of you trying to lecture me about only believing what I wanna believe and plugging my ears about everything else, that's QUITE the Freudian slip!

So if we may ask the bored's resident far right tabloid reader, what's their angle, here? Do they mean to sound upset about the Pope once again pimping nazis, or are they bragging cuz that's kinda their thing?

You pluralized Nazis regarding the Greek parliament thing, a little thing you do ohso often because you need help with your fucking garbage. It's another indication that you don't care about actual truth. It was one dude shown on video, picked because he's ethnically Greek, and who didn't seem particularly fond of Nazis based on his words.

"Based on his words" - do you have a transcript you could share? I've only seen a couple quotes. Indeed, the dude identified as Greek, but he did not actually speak Greek, which was another thing that rubbed the actual Greeks the wrong way. Though the main thing that rubbed the Greeks the wrong way is the Ukranian president brought a fucking nazi to parliament. That sort of completely undermines the whole "no nazi problem in Ukraine" thing, don't it? It also plays right into Putin's rhetoric, which I think we and the Ukraine should avoid. Don't you?

Of course the Pentagon can't confirm that the Russians committed the attrocities in Bucha, they weren't there to witness it. They also said they have no reason not to believe it.

Nobody here said the US government or the Ukrainian never peddle misinformation. In fact we've said the opposite. But as I said, you just ignore that because it's not fitting into your view of things.

The misinformation is among the scariest shit around right now. The elephant in the room: if Russia WASN'T responsible for the massacre in Bucha, then who was? Could it have been more Ukraine-on-Ukraine violence? Cuz there's plenty of evidence that's been going on, for years, bolstered by U.S. and NATO weapons to boot, but it's like we aren't even allowed to say that, nor may we suggest any other approach.

And what's your point in all of this?

good question! I suppose it's that this whole war thing, and war crimes thing, and humanitarian crisis thing, either instigated and/or escalated by YOUR AND MY OWN TAX DOLLARS weighs heavily on me. I'm hoping maybe if we continue to discuss it'll change our collective conscience and foster some sort of more humanitarian diplomatic approach, but maybe that's just wishful thinking. And maybe dialogue does no good when our values and mores and such are all so ingrained to just accept war, even almost want it. But once again, perhaps it's best for me to accept that I'm not gonna change any minds, especially not on a silly little message bored.

When the Azov actually was a Nazi independent group, you didn't say shit. When people actually were dying in Donbas, you didn't say shit.

another good point here - it really is tragic how we're so conditioned to just sorta pick and choose which wars warrant our collective patriotic outrage, and which can be shrugged of as just some other shithole country's problem. No one gave a shit about the war in Ukraine for years, until big bad Russia barged in.

I'll admit, I wasn't even fully aware of the crisis in Ukraine, until it got to be national daily headlines. Maybe if our media covered the Ukraine civil war for the past 8 years as exhaustively as they covered the Russian invasion, I or others might care more? Why DIDN'T the media cover it more? Or for that matter, cover any number of other wars going on right this very moment? Furnished with U.S. taxpayer-funded weapons, at that!

The only reason to bring it up now is to defend Russia's actions. You keep saying "fuck Putin" because you don't even realize that's what you're doing.

This is the shit that kept getting me so pissed off the first time around. Shameless gaslighting! It would be like if I decided you just didn't condemn Azov enough so I tried to label you as a nazi. Then when you denied it and condemned nazism, I accuse you of parroting nazi talking points anyway. But I wouldn't want to do that, and neither would you. So why do it to me?

to revisit my question about what's my point in all this, maybe it's that I'd really like to distinguish my actual views from this Qusdahl boogeyman living rent free in your head character you seem so desperate to create. If I kept calling you a nazi, you'd wanna clear the air about that too, right?

But there is absolutely no other reason to wait until Russia attacks Ukraine to suddenly raise a bunch for of shit like that.

again, sorry I wasn't as aware of the shitstorm in Ukraine until our MSM started selling it to us on the daily. I've also tried to discuss wars in Syria, Yemen, Pakistan, et al, and have been given plenty of shit for it here.

You're playing the part of people who were bringing up unequal treatment of women by Iraq and Afghanistan as if that's a reason to invade.

Not sure where you came up with this. (though fwiw if Donald Rumsfeld said we needed to invade Iraq and Afghanistan cuz of unequal treatment of women, I bet you would have been on board with that just as quickly as the other bullshit reasons they sold us)

AGAIN, both of these things can be true:

- the Russian invasion is evil, and should be condemned
- Ukraine has a nazi problem either way, and that should be condemned too!

AGAIN, let's distinguish criticism of the war as a whole, with trying to gaslight me into being some kinda supporter of the other side.

[jfish26]

rumors of chemical weapons dropped on civilians now. If thats true....so much for hopes of a quick ending without additional world involvement...

I still don't have a very good answer for what we/NATO should do. I do know that whatever is done should be done without any expectation that Putin will respect or even recognize proportionality/discretion/etc.

He's going to lie to his people about what we/NATO do, no matter what.

I dont think there is a good answer for what to do or how to proceed really. Not without escalating this thing into a world war....which I believe is precisely what Putin has been angling for since the beginning.

Its interesting that a week ago-ish (?) Biden had said that chemical warfare, use of chemical weapons on non military targets would be a red line for him to intervene.....days later Putin does it.....I dont believe thats a coincidence.



*I should also note that this was a preliminary report issued from inside Ukraine. The US and UK have been supposedly trying to independently verify its validity. So, there's still hope this is misinformation.

I don't think Putin's goal is to engage in a world war, exactly. I do think he wants pretext supporting/"justifying" the use of tactical nuclear weapons, which will come off as a massive show of strength (as there is no way we will respond in kind).

[ousdahl]

I still don't have a very good answer for what we/NATO should do.

I dont think there is a good answer for what to do or how to proceed really.

wait

do you guys mean to suggest that continuing to indiscriminately flood the country full of weapons might NOT be the best plan, then?

[Mjl]

Too many words, you have fallacies in all of your responses, I'm not replying to all of them. Which of those subjects do you want a response to, pick one or two.

[TDub]

I still don't have a very good answer for what we/NATO should do.

I dont think there is a good answer for what to do or how to proceed really.

wait

do you guys mean to suggest that continuing to indiscriminately flood the country full of weapons might NOT be the best plan, then?

good grief....the current twist is verifying whether or not Putin used chemical warfare against civilians and your issue with it is that the world is supplying the attacked country with weapons? unfuckingelievable dude.



the question we've debated is how to respond without escalating further....but obviously (if this is true) some measure of response is necessary. You wonder why we say you've been had by Russian propaganda....

[ousdahl]

Too many words, you have fallacies in all of your responses, I'm not replying to all of them. Which of those subjects do you want a response to, pick one or two.

are you a nazi?

yes or no

[ousdahl]

I still don't have a very good answer for what we/NATO should do.

I dont think there is a good answer for what to do or how to proceed really.

wait

do you guys mean to suggest that continuing to indiscriminately flood the country full of weapons might NOT be the best plan, then?

good grief....the current twist is verifying whether or not Putin used chemical warfare against civilians and your issue with it is that the world is supplying the attacked country with weapons? unfuckintbelievable dude.

am I allowed to have issues with both things?

or do I gotta just pick a side?

[TDub]

wait

do you guys mean to suggest that continuing to indiscriminately flood the country full of weapons might NOT be the best plan, then?

good grief....the current twist is verifying whether or not Putin used chemical warfare against civilians and your issue with it is that the world is supplying the attacked country with weapons? unfuckintbelievable dude.

am I allowed to have issues with both things?

or do I gotta just pick a side?

I think you should ask open ended questions and ignore all the answers and only respond in meme form. Have we discussed. ....thoughts.....what ifss..

thats your forte.

[TDub]

should the world standing by and let Putin ravage and rape and haul away Ukrainian civilians? Spray them with sarin?

because that's the option you appear to be suggesting.

what's your excuse now.....now that Russia has said its not really about nazis.....or did you not read that article?

[Deleted User 863]

should the world standing by and let Putin ravage and rape and haul away Ukrainian civilians? Spray them with sarin?

Absolutely not. The world should have stopped this long ago.

There is no easy answer or solution, but this can't be tolerated.

[Mjl]

Too many words, you have fallacies in all of your responses, I'm not replying to all of them. Which of those subjects do you want a response to, pick one or two.

are you a nazi?

yes or no

I'm the grandchild of Holocaust survivors, and the great grandchild of Holocaust non-Survivors.

[Deleted User 863]

Too many words, you have fallacies in all of your responses, I'm not replying to all of them. Which of those subjects do you want a response to, pick one or two.

are you a nazi?

yes or no

I'm the grandchild of Holocaust survivors, and the great grandchild of Holocaust non-Survivors.

Please forgive Q for that insensitive question.