Let’s have a war!

[MICHHAWK]

almost every movie. television show. the bad guys are almost always russians.

Quoting this for posterity...

you honor me.

[ousdahl]

Pot commited. you cant turn back. So instead you pour more crazy onto the pile.

again.

wut?

[TDub]

Pot commited. you cant turn back. So instead you pour more crazy onto the pile.

again.

wut?

If you dont understand thats on you, not me.

[digitalkookie]

almost every movie. television show. the bad guys are almost always russians.

Quoting this for posterity...

you honor me.

Not really. That's one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on here...and there have been many

[ousdahl]

Also, just for the sake of clarity.

Lets pretend that Ukraine has been bombing Russia before the war started.


How do you think the missiles still wouldve ended up in Poland.

You DO realize Poland doesn't border Russia right? So Ukraine wouldve has to miss Russia by about 90 degrees to hit Poland.

Yea, Poland doesn't border Russia...but not sure pointing that out does much to explain this situation.

I mean, so how DO you think the missiles still would've ended up in Poland?

[ousdahl]

Pot commited. you cant turn back. So instead you pour more crazy onto the pile.

again.

wut?

If you dont understand thats on you, not me.

OK.

from now on then, I'm just gonna assume all your posts are Kenny Rogers lyrics.

[ousdahl]

almost every movie. television show. the bad guys are almost always russians.

for real tho

have any of you guys ever really stopped and considered just how much propaganda we may be subjected to?

nah, couldn't be. It's only the Russians who do that.

[TDub]

Also, just for the sake of clarity.

Lets pretend that Ukraine has been bombing Russia before the war started.


How do you think the missiles still wouldve ended up in Poland.

You DO realize Poland doesn't border Russia right? So Ukraine wouldve has to miss Russia by about 90 degrees to hit Poland.

Yea, Poland doesn't border Russia...but not sure pointing that out does much to explain this situation.

I mean, so how DO you think the missiles still would've ended up in Poland?

what?

I think there is a 0% chance the missiles would've ended up in Poland if Russia wasn't sending missiles and aircraft barrage into Ukraine. Ukraine would not have been firing anti aircraft missiles and missile defense system projectiles.

YOU ARE THE ONE that said they would have still hit Poland.

[ousdahl]

huh? Not sure I ever said that, at least not in the context you're trying to suggest.

since we're at least mostly agreeing that a Ukrainian missile apparently DID hit Poland tho...5 questions of the day!

1. what IS the error range on one of those Ukrainian missiles, anyway?
2. Like for real how often do missile defense systems end up so far off target they end up killing civilians in a whole different country?
3. a. from exactly where was the particular missile fired?
b. toward exactly where was the particular missile intended to be aimed?
c. at exactly where did the particular missile ultimately detonate?
4. why was Zelensky so quick to claim it was a Russian missile before confirming?
5. if it was indeed a Russian missile that bombed Poland, but Russia too said it was just an accident, would we still be so quick to shrug it off?

bonus question:

what if - and, heaven forbid! but - what if, Ukraine DOES bomb Poland again?

[Mjl]

1. They're surface to air missiles. Range isn't all that applicable, they're not intended to hit a ground target.
2. Probably not often because one country missile-baraging a country that has air defenses isn't particularly common. Most common is in Israel, and that tech is better than what Ukraine has and they've had more opportunities to test and improve the iron dome.
3.
A. Near Poland
B. A Russian missile over Ukraine
C. Yet to be determined
4. I assume he assumed because he knew he didn't approve of sending a missile into Poland. But you'd have to ask him.
5. Not as quick because Russia is the one purposely shooting missiles at another country, but I would guess it would have resulted in just a stern warning

Bonus: would answer but the misleading language of Ukraine "bombing" Poland indicates a lack of interest in real answer/discussion.

[ousdahl]

thanks for playing.

Just some thoughts on your responses:

1. if they're not intended to hit a ground target, then how'd they end up hitting a ground target?

3c: actually, I think it's been determined the missile hit a grain facility in a rural village in east Poland, a few miles from the Ukrainian border, killing 2

4. if he (Zelensky) knew he didn't approve of sending a missile into Poland, then I wonder if he'll expect any accountability from whoever did fire it. And this point may once again prompt greater questions of oversight

5. I guess in that hypothetical, while a "stern warning" sounds wimpy, I'd still take that over going full Article V about it

Bonus: no really! I'm interested in discussing this! For you to allege some "indicates a lack of interest in real answer/discussion," even though I'm trying to discuss, seems gaslighty, and may even be your own projecting...especially when your rationale for dismissing the discussion is, nitpicking the semantics of "bombing."

I think the operative term in my bonus question was less "bomb" and more "again." Cuz, if it did happen AGAIN, at what point IS language like "bombing" more appropriate than language like "just another accident?" At what point, if ever, might it be appropriate to give Ukraine a "stern warning" of their own?

[TDub]

huh? Not sure I ever said that, at least not in the context you're trying to suggest.

since we're at least mostly agreeing that a Ukrainian missile apparently DID hit Poland tho...5 questions of the day!

1. what IS the error range on one of those Ukrainian missiles, anyway?
2. Like for real how often do missile defense systems end up so far off target they end up killing civilians in a whole different country?
3. a. from exactly where was the particular missile fired?
b. toward exactly where was the particular missile intended to be aimed?
c. at exactly where did the particular missile ultimately detonate?
4. why was Zelensky so quick to claim it was a Russian missile before confirming?
5. if it was indeed a Russian missile that bombed Poland, but Russia too said it was just an accident, would we still be so quick to shrug it off?

bonus question:

what if - and, heaven forbid! but - what if, Ukraine DOES bomb Poland again?

If Russia wasn't sending waves of missiles into a sovereign nation...would Ukraine still be firing Anti-aircraft and missile interception projectiles?

yes?

[ousdahl]

[Mjl]

thanks for playing.

Just some thoughts on your responses:

1. if they're not intended to hit a ground target, then how'd they end up hitting a ground target?

3c: actually, I think it's been determined the missile hit a grain facility in a rural village in east Poland, a few miles from the Ukrainian border, killing 2

4. if he (Zelensky) knew he didn't approve of sending a missile into Poland, then I wonder if he'll expect any accountability from whoever did fire it. And this point may once again prompt greater questions of oversight

5. I guess in that hypothetical, while a "stern warning" sounds wimpy, I'd still take that over going full Article V about it

Bonus: no really! I'm interested in discussing this! For you to allege some "indicates a lack of interest in real answer/discussion," even though I'm trying to discuss, seems gaslighty, and may even be your own projecting...especially when your rationale for dismissing the discussion is, nitpicking the semantics of "bombing."

I think the operative term in my bonus question was less "bomb" and more "again." Cuz, if it did happen AGAIN, at what point IS language like "bombing" more appropriate than language like "just another accident?" At what point, if ever, might it be appropriate to give Ukraine a "stern warning" of their own?

Everything you wrote insinuates you think Ukraine did this intentionally

[KUTradition]

he’s been blaming ukraine for nearly 100 pages

[Deleted User 863]

Dang. Missed another solid Q meltdown today. Impressive.

[Mjl]

I must admit he's good at getting engagement. Can't believe I tried again. I'll go back away now.

[ousdahl]

yea, I guess I do assign some amount of blame to Ukraine. If you don't, how don't you?

But I've still condemned Russia's aggression as much as anyone. On that, at least, we agree, right you guys?

And guess I'm among a very small minority questioning the US and NATO's actions too.

Guess I just think there's blame to go around. Forgive me if I struggle to just go along with the oversimplified war rhetoric.

for real, if I COULD just go along with the rah rah narratives, I would. Help me out you guys! I keep overthinking this shit. How do you trust the whole "Ukraine good Russia bad" and just leave it at that?

Especially in light of the fact it's coming from the same fucks who told us we'd find WMDs in Iraq? Like for real, after the last two decades of perpetual war that effectively accomplished, um, wut, did none of you guys loose at least a little confidence in the whole war machine thing like I did? If you DID loose a little confidence like I did, what makes you so sure you won't get fooled again with Ukraine?

petetownshend.gif

I still just wish there was some way to articulate some comprehensive anti-war stance. It's a damn shame that's not a more popular stance. The only ones who do seem to want to take it are like some strange far right/far left mix of urban protestor Western European pussies, and like 8 fringe Qusdahl types who get booed out of the "progressive" U.S. lawmaker's pressers. Oh, and some MTG type US righties,* but to no consequence at all, and without even knowing what they're talking about, they're mostly just still in bed with Trump. #MAGAGA

I really do just wish to put an end to this thread. I'm ready for some news of DE-esclation. Maybe even some peace negotiations!





*here, or the "conservatives almost getting it" thread?

[ousdahl]

and re: whether Ukraine "bombed" Poland intentionally, I dunno. Probably not?

Whether they took an accidentally misfired missile into Poland as an opportunity to blame Russia in some sadistic attempt to go full Article V about it, that may be a little more of a possibility.

Maybe that kinda language is just matter of fact as far as war rhetoric goes, tho. Maybe it's Zelensky trying to use an accident as an opportunity to pander for even more resources yet from his NATO pals. Maybe it was meant as more of a domestic political move; a chance to throw some red meat to his base (of Azov militants who get off to the thought of escalating war with Russia)

I dunno.

I'm ready for this shit to be over.

[ousdahl]

Oh come on you guys



Of course, had to check the tweet was real. Mich, which one of these conservative chick’s teams is you on?