Let’s have a war!

[ousdahl]

Like I tried to ask in good faith

Help me make sense of mjl’s link.

Does it or does it not offer a transcript translated to Bennett stating the west blocked negotiations?

[ousdahl]

Oh, nm.

I guess it was ok to block negotiations once Bucha happened.

Guess I get it now.

But like I said this morning, I’d prefer to discuss the Hersh lulz.

[KUTradition]

it’s Bennett’s opinion, right?

and the translation is shit, right?

you’re reading what you want to read

[ousdahl]

Yea.

so are you.

[ousdahl]

It’s some question of timeline. Does Bennett say specifically when the west broke off negotiations? Did they just shuffle their feet for a month?

And, I can’t stress this enough. PLEASE stop calling me a Russian apologist. When you say shot like that it makes me wanna keep this thread going until we clear the air about that pathetic gaslighting bullshit.

You’re better and brighter than that, trad. Shit, at this point, even illy is being less of an illy than you.

Besides, I don’t wonder why I keep getting labeled as a Russia apologist. I know why I do - it’s cuz of just how well the western imperial war machine propaganda has conditioned you to do so. (ETA I recognize this much cuz I realize I used to be this way too!)

you aren’t as woke as you’re purporting re: the western propaganda machine

Mjl’s link should’ve indicated as much

you’re just parroting a different kind of propaganda…the taking of twitter stories at face value seems to have you quite triggered (and poorly informed)

shhh...

im trying to lull this thread to sleep with amazingly clever 90s alt rock puns.

somewhere in there is a Disarm joke.

[KUTradition]

i know you are, but what am i

what are you, 6?

[KUTradition]

you read that whole article, and your take-away is that this is still the West’s fault?

[ousdahl]

Nah.

My takeaway is the same as it’s been all along:

That there’s blame to go around.

is your takeaway still NATO good Russia bad?

[Mjl]

It’s some question of timeline. Does Bennett say specifically when the west broke off negotiations? Did they just shuffle their feet for a month?

And, I can’t stress this enough. PLEASE stop calling me a Russian apologist. When you say shot like that it makes me wanna keep this thread going until we clear the air about that pathetic gaslighting bullshit.

You’re better and brighter than that, trad. Shit, at this point, even illy is being less of an illy than you.

Besides, I don’t wonder why I keep getting labeled as a Russia apologist. I know why I do - it’s cuz of just how well the western imperial war machine propaganda has conditioned you to do so. (ETA I recognize this much cuz I realize I used to be this way too!)

you aren’t as woke as you’re purporting re: the western propaganda machine

Mjl’s link should’ve indicated as much

you’re just parroting a different kind of propaganda…the taking of twitter stories at face value seems to have you quite triggered (and poorly informed)

shhh...

im trying to lull this thread to sleep with amazingly clever 90s alt rock puns.

Good idea for trying to attain nirvana.

[KUTradition]

Nah.

My takeaway is the same as it’s been all along:

That there’s blame to go around.

is your takeaway still NATO good Russia bad?

yes

NATO is why there has been relative peace across the european continent for half a century

NATO also led to the establishment of the EU, which could easily be argued is behind the economic prosperity for member nations

[KUTradition]

actually, i should clarify…much like china, russia in and of itself isn’t bad. in fact, there are some amazing russian scientists in my field that i highly admire

it’s putin and his sycophants, along with folks like prigozhin that are absolutely bad…nay, evil

[ousdahl]

See, that’s a big source of our bickering. I think it’s silly to accept such an oversimplified good guy bad guy narrative.

Besides, didn’t nato bomb Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, and Kosovo?

not to mention all the countries nato bombed that weren’t, uh, on the European continent

[ousdahl]

actually, i should clarify…much like china, russia in and of itself isn’t bad. in fact, there are some amazing russian scientists in my field that i highly admire

it’s putin and his sycophants, along with folks like prigozhin that are absolutely bad…nay, evil

Qusdahl says we might be getting somewhere!

They/them are always distinguishing support for the people of a country, while also criticizing the actions of the country’s gummints

It’s a difficult distinction to wrap one’s mind around in a lot of ways.

And once again, fuck the Russian gummint’s aggression

And blame China for its faults all we want, but Qusdahl does wonder how China got to be some kinda global power without having to bomb the fuck out of everybody else about it.

That’s part of why, when you asked if I thought China might be a good global leader, I replied with, “maybe”

[ousdahl]

Or, if China has/is bombing the fuck out of everyone else about it, please correct.

But I get the feeling we’d hear all about it if they were.

But instead we hear about balloons.

[KUTradition]

See, that’s a big source of our bickering. I think it’s silly to accept such an oversimplified good guy bad guy narrative.

Besides, didn’t nato bomb Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, and Kosovo?

not to mention all the countries nato bombed that weren’t, uh, on the European continent

never once have i said NATO (or the US for that matter) is without fault

you seem to be conflating history with what’s going on right now…which, if memory serves, should take us right back to the first few pages of this thread

[ousdahl]

The disconnect still comes from me trying to adopt a more objective and objective world view, with most of you other guys trying to pick a side.

You guys give such a pass to any aggression or war crimes you declare committed by the “good guys”

I saw a good take the other day, describing certain paradox:

“NATO exists to manage risks created by its own existence”

[TDub]

you aren’t as woke as you’re purporting re: the western propaganda machine

Mjl’s link should’ve indicated as much

you’re just parroting a different kind of propaganda…the taking of twitter stories at face value seems to have you quite triggered (and poorly informed)

shhh...

im trying to lull this thread to sleep with amazingly clever 90s alt rock puns.

Good idea for trying to attain nirvana.

smells like Stolichnaya spirits

[KUTradition]

what pass?

what atrocities/war crimes have been committed by Ukrainians?

you’re saying near exactly the same shit that has come out of putin’s mouth, that the US has no business in his neck of the woods because we’ve done some terrible shit in the past

[KUTradition]

I saw a good take the other day, describing certain paradox:

“NATO exists to manage risks created by its own existence”

i’m just going to assume you read that in your twitter feed

it’s getting harder and harder to take you seriously…maybe Cascadia was right all along

[KUTradition]

Ousie, would you have preferred the “west” just let putin do his thing?

how about when he invaded Georgia, or Moldova next?

at what point should his aggressions be met with force? and whom should be meeting those aggressions? there are only so many cheeks to turn…