Let’s have a war!

[Qusdahl]

Since I apparently must really clarify: I’m anti-war. By anyone anywhere. INCLUDING PUTIN AND RUSSIA. And including this “Azov battalion” in the Ukraine. Anyone know what’s up with them?

Apparently they’re the nazi-infested extremist group that’s been propped up as part of the ruling regime by….some alliance or another…since 2014, and during that time has allegedly killed 14000 civilians in that area.

* allegedly. I dunno what I’m talking about here. I just saw some tweets. Pics like this floating around.



But I haven’t verified it. I dunno what to believe! But having grown up in the area of Prime Time Wars on CNN, to make no effort to understand anything beyond the narrative being spoon fed to us, seems about as wise as believing there were WMDs all over Iraq too.

And since I have to clarify these things: I didn’t support Saddam Hussein either! It’s just that I didn’t support W and Cheney’s Keystone Kop imperialist occupation either, either.

It’s almost like one isn’t even allowed to be anti-war, tho. Like Q requires me to take a side. Sigh.

[KUTradition]

it’s not THE Ukraine…it’s just Ukraine

[KUTradition]

Since I apparently must really clarify: I’m anti-war. By anyone anywhere. INCLUDING PUTIN AND RUSSIA. And including this “Azov battalion” in the Ukraine. Anyone know what’s up with them?

Apparently they’re the nazi-infested extremist group that’s been propped up as part of the ruling regime by….some alliance or another…since 2014, and during that time has allegedly killed 14000 civilians in that area.

* allegedly. I dunno what I’m talking about here. I just saw some tweets. Pics like this floating around.



But I haven’t verified it. I dunno what to believe! But having grown up in the area of Prime Time Wars on CNN, to make no effort to understand anything beyond the narrative being spoon fed to us, seems about as wise as believing there were WMDs all over Iraq too.

And since I have to clarify these things: I didn’t support Saddam Hussein either! It’s just that I didn’t support W and Cheney’s Keystone Kop imperialist occupation either, either.

It’s almost like one isn’t even allowed to be anti-war, tho. Like Q requires me to take a side. Sigh.

putin’s campaign of distraction working perfectly

you’re smarter than this

[jfish26]

what alliance did Ukraine join?

it sure as hell isn’t NATO

I am becoming more and more convinced this isn’t, for Putin, about NATO/military issues, so much as ideological matters:

absolutely part of it, and i think the Novalny issue and demonstrations happening now across russia support that idea

what’s funny, is that the majority of Ukrainians weren’t even in favor of joining NATO until the annexation of Crimea

Among other things. What Putin is finding is that if religion is the opiate of the masses, democracy and self-determination are stimulants.

[Mjl]

With Iraq the invading country was wrong.
In this situation the invading country is wrong.

If you don't know what to believe, stop looking only tweet-deep at things.

[sdoyel]

I don’t mean for this to sound insensitive for the people of Ukraine, but doesn’t this current “invasion” by Putin’s army look pretty damn weak?

Is this by design? Taking the paths of least resistance and reducing risk of casualties?

Is this a product of Ukraine not showing resistance?

Thoughts?

[jfish26]

I don’t mean for this to sound insensitive for the people of Ukraine, but doesn’t this current “invasion” by Putin’s army look pretty damn weak?

Is this by design? Taking the paths of least resistance and reducing risk of casualties?

Is this a product of Ukraine not showing resistance?

Thoughts?

It's really hard to ascertain the bottom line here, as sources are unreliable.

Russia has no incentive to broadcast wins (which necessarily will involve dead and maimed non-combatants) and active incentive to mask losses (see, for example, the (to-me) extraordinary step of bringing mobile crematoriums to the proceedings).

Ukraine has every incentive to broadcast wins, and also no incentive to mask losses (although it very much has an incentive to broadcast civilian casualties and other things in the nature of war crimes).

I do think - and absolutely I do hope - that Putin bit off way more than he could chew.

I would love it to be true that (1) the geography makes this a taller task than the Russian forces can handle, (2) the Russian forces are indeed poorly-trained and unmotivated and (3) Ukraine's will can make up, at least for a time, for the vast qualitative and quantitative advantages of the Russians.

[NewtonHawk11]

It doesn't seem overbearing, but Ukraine is also a somewhat weaker country without any true ally or organization. They don't have to exert a lot of energy because not a lot of energy has to be exerted. But it does seem as though Ukraine is putting up more of a fight than expected.

It's also showing that Russia isn't as powerful and strong as what they think they are. Lots of breakdowns on roads it seems. They still have a lot of outdated equipment.

Side note, it's maybe been discussed here but if the Ghost of Kyiv is real, then that's pretty damn incredible.

Also Russia, GO FUCK YOURSELF

[Qusdahl]

putin’s campaign of distraction working perfectly

you’re smarter than this

No I ain’t!

Wait, nm. Thanks for keeping me grounded.

All I’m saying tho, is the truth is somewhere in the middle. I hope that doesn’t have to be a controversial take.

So I guess my question is, how can you be so sure the only propaganda and “campaign of distraction” we need to worry about, is Putin’s?

and again, I AM NOT SUPPORTING PUTIN.

I’m trying to figure out some context beyond tweet-deep. There’s been at least 8 years of drama there, so to act like this Russian aggression is happening suddenly and spontaneously and in a vacuum, just seems like an oversimplified campaign of distraction in itself.

I think imma go look for some news media from other sources around the world, to see how those shithole counties are perceiving it.

[jfish26]

putin’s campaign of distraction working perfectly

you’re smarter than this

No I ain’t!

Wait, nm. Thanks for keeping me grounded.

All I’m saying tho, is the truth is somewhere in the middle. I hope that doesn’t have to be a controversial take.

So I guess my question is, how can you be so sure the only propaganda and “campaign of distraction” we need to worry about, is Putin’s?

and again, I AM NOT SUPPORTING PUTIN.

I’m trying to figure out some context beyond tweet-deep. There’s been at least 8 years of drama there, so to act like this Russian aggression is happening suddenly and spontaneously and in a vacuum, just seems like an oversimplified campaign of distraction in itself.

I think imma go look for some news media from other sources around the world, to see how those shithole counties are perceiving it.

For what it's worth, "the truth is somewhere in the middle" is an outdated principle where one side of our politics (and media) is significantly further from the middle than the other. By design, the "middle" of the discourse has shifted well away from the middle of popular sentiment.

[sdoyel]

I don’t mean for this to sound insensitive for the people of Ukraine, but doesn’t this current “invasion” by Putin’s army look pretty damn weak?

Is this by design? Taking the paths of least resistance and reducing risk of casualties?

Is this a product of Ukraine not showing resistance?

Thoughts?

It's really hard to ascertain the bottom line here, as sources are unreliable.

Russia has no incentive to broadcast wins (which necessarily will involve dead and maimed non-combatants) and active incentive to mask losses (see, for example, the (to-me) extraordinary step of bringing mobile crematoriums to the proceedings).

Ukraine has every incentive to broadcast wins, and also no incentive to mask losses (although it very much has an incentive to broadcast civilian casualties and other things in the nature of war crimes).

I do think - and absolutely I do hope - that Putin bit off way more than he could chew.

I would love it to be true that (1) the geography makes this a taller task than the Russian forces can handle, (2) the Russian forces are indeed poorly-trained and unmotivated and (3) Ukraine's will can make up, at least for a time, for the vast qualitative and quantitative advantages of the Russians.

My fear is Putin gets frustrated and decides to nuke them...

[KUTradition]

putin’s campaign of distraction working perfectly

you’re smarter than this

No I ain’t!

Wait, nm. Thanks for keeping me grounded.

All I’m saying tho, is the truth is somewhere in the middle. I hope that doesn’t have to be a controversial take.

So I guess my question is, how can you be so sure the only propaganda and “campaign of distraction” we need to worry about, is Putin’s?

and again, I AM NOT SUPPORTING PUTIN.

I’m trying to figure out some context beyond tweet-deep. There’s been at least 8 years of drama there, so to act like this Russian aggression is happening suddenly and spontaneously and in a vacuum, just seems like an oversimplified campaign of distraction in itself.

I think imma go look for some news media from other sources around the world, to see how those shithole counties are perceiving it.

i don’t need any propaganda to know that putin is the aggressor here, and invaded a sovereign, democratic nation

you appear to be giving way too much credibility to supposed pretexts offered up by a former KGB agent, strong-man dictator…which is exactly what he’d want

[Qusdahl]

Where did I give credibility to anything Putin said?

[twocoach]

putin’s campaign of distraction working perfectly

you’re smarter than this

No I ain’t!

Wait, nm. Thanks for keeping me grounded.

All I’m saying tho, is the truth is somewhere in the middle. I hope that doesn’t have to be a controversial take.

So I guess my question is, how can you be so sure the only propaganda and “campaign of distraction” we need to worry about, is Putin’s?

and again, I AM NOT SUPPORTING PUTIN.

I’m trying to figure out some context beyond tweet-deep. There’s been at least 8 years of drama there, so to act like this Russian aggression is happening suddenly and spontaneously and in a vacuum, just seems like an oversimplified campaign of distraction in itself.

I think imma go look for some news media from other sources around the world, to see how those shithole counties are perceiving it.

"All I’m saying tho, is the truth is somewhere in the middle. I hope that doesn’t have to be a controversial take. "

It's not controversial, it's just a complete assumption based on nothing. The truth isn't required to be in the middle at all.

I don't think that anyone thinks this came out of nowhere at all. This was an inevitability from the day that Ukraine gained their independence.

I don't really give a fuck if the Ukraine has some Nazi loving dumb asses in their military ranks. Frankly, I expect that the military of every nation with a majority of white people in it has Nazi morons who find life in the military appealing. Racist morons being drawn to law enforcement and the military is not a phenomenon unique to the US. What I care about is that Russia has invaded a sovereign nation and is killing innocent civilians because they simply feel like it. Whether a tiny portion of the Ukrainians who die are actually evil fucks whose death leaves the world a better place is irrelevant to me.

[twocoach]

Where did I give credibility to anything Putin said?

"All I’m saying tho, is the truth is somewhere in the middle. I hope that doesn’t have to be a controversial take. "

Making that statement means that you are assuming that it is at least somewhat true, thereby lending at least some credibility to it without any legitimate reason.

[MICHHAWK]

oushdale is a russia lover. i can see that.

[Qusdahl]

How is a middle of the road stance is somehow Russian propaganda?

I know we all became foreign policy experts even quicker than Randy became a virologist, but.. seriously?

[Qusdahl]

oushdale is a russia lover. i can see that.

Despite shouting over and over that I don’t support Putin.

[Qusdahl]

thread:

[twocoach]

I don’t mean for this to sound insensitive for the people of Ukraine, but doesn’t this current “invasion” by Putin’s army look pretty damn weak?

Is this by design? Taking the paths of least resistance and reducing risk of casualties?

Is this a product of Ukraine not showing resistance?

Thoughts?

It's really hard to ascertain the bottom line here, as sources are unreliable.

Russia has no incentive to broadcast wins (which necessarily will involve dead and maimed non-combatants) and active incentive to mask losses (see, for example, the (to-me) extraordinary step of bringing mobile crematoriums to the proceedings).

Ukraine has every incentive to broadcast wins, and also no incentive to mask losses (although it very much has an incentive to broadcast civilian casualties and other things in the nature of war crimes).

I do think - and absolutely I do hope - that Putin bit off way more than he could chew.

I would love it to be true that (1) the geography makes this a taller task than the Russian forces can handle, (2) the Russian forces are indeed poorly-trained and unmotivated and (3) Ukraine's will can make up, at least for a time, for the vast qualitative and quantitative advantages of the Russians.

My fear is Putin gets frustrated and decides to nuke them...

My fear is that Russia makes a bunch of dirty bombs out of the Chernobyl site that they just captured.