Let’s have a war!
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KUTradition
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Re: Let’s have a war!
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
Re: Let’s have a war!
link not working
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
Frank Wilhoit
Frank Wilhoit
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KUTradition
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Re: Let’s have a war!
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
Re: Let’s have a war!
yea, Ukraine's history is fucked.
what that link omits, though, is the US meddling around there too. Even though we've known all along that the place was fucked, we decided to flood the place with "lethal aid" anyway.
and among what the anti-war critics are concerned about, is that Ukraine less likely to emerge from all this looking like US/NATO really did "everything possible to bring European values to Ukraine," and more likely to end up just another war-torn shell of a country, similar to all the other war-torn shells of countries after the US war machine comes to town
(see Iraq, Afghanistan, et al)
Re: Let’s have a war!
^^^ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:35 pmyea, Ukraine's history is fucked.
what that link omits, though, is the US meddling around there too. Even though we've known all along that the place was fucked, we decided to flood the place with "lethal aid" anyway.
and among what the anti-war critics are concerned about, is that Ukraine less likely to emerge from all this looking like US/NATO really did "everything possible to bring European values to Ukraine," and more likely to end up just another war-torn shell of a country, similar to all the other war-torn shells of countries after the US war machine comes to town
(see Iraq, Afghanistan, et al)
Afghanistan was like paradise on earth before we sent it back to the 14th century, singlehanded.
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
Frank Wilhoit
Frank Wilhoit
Re: Let’s have a war!
So what would Ukraine look like today if no "lethal aid" was given?ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:35 pmyea, Ukraine's history is fucked.
what that link omits, though, is the US meddling around there too. Even though we've known all along that the place was fucked, we decided to flood the place with "lethal aid" anyway.
and among what the anti-war critics are concerned about, is that Ukraine less likely to emerge from all this looking like US/NATO really did "everything possible to bring European values to Ukraine," and more likely to end up just another war-torn shell of a country, similar to all the other war-torn shells of countries after the US war machine comes to town
(see Iraq, Afghanistan, et al)
What does the part of Ukraine that has been under Russian control look like now?
Nero is an angler in the lake of darkness
Re: Let’s have a war!
So what would Ukraine look like today if no "lethal aid" was given? I dunno, about as fucked as it's pretty much always looked - as some struggling war-torn country, on the other side of the world, that has bickered with their asshole neighbors since pretty much always. Much of it is right there in trad's article.
What does the part of Ukraine that has been under Russian control look like now? I dunno...which time? but whichever time it is, I'll guess war torn, and on the other side of the world, and fucked.
whatever the correct answer to both of those questions may be - in the grand scheme of things, just not sure anyone is really better off for taking a war-torn fucked country on the other side of the world and flooding it with even more weapons...paid for by you and me!
What does the part of Ukraine that has been under Russian control look like now? I dunno...which time? but whichever time it is, I'll guess war torn, and on the other side of the world, and fucked.
whatever the correct answer to both of those questions may be - in the grand scheme of things, just not sure anyone is really better off for taking a war-torn fucked country on the other side of the world and flooding it with even more weapons...paid for by you and me!
Re: Let’s have a war!
lolFeral wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 7:32 pm^^^ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:35 pmyea, Ukraine's history is fucked.
what that link omits, though, is the US meddling around there too. Even though we've known all along that the place was fucked, we decided to flood the place with "lethal aid" anyway.
and among what the anti-war critics are concerned about, is that Ukraine less likely to emerge from all this looking like US/NATO really did "everything possible to bring European values to Ukraine," and more likely to end up just another war-torn shell of a country, similar to all the other war-torn shells of countries after the US war machine comes to town
(see Iraq, Afghanistan, et al)
Afghanistan was like paradise on earth before we sent it back to the 14th century, singlehanded.
I guess that might beg the question of why even bother fucking with such a war-torn country on the other side of the world, but I'm pretty sure this thread at this point is at least in agreement that the Afghanistan war was dumb.
but if anyone 20 years ago suggested the Afghanistan war was dumb, they/them would Shirley be getting the Qusdahl treatment, right?
(lol I just said Shirley to Feral lol)
Re: Let’s have a war!
The Afghanistan war was not dumb.
The Afghanistan nation-building-experiment was dumb.
I blame Colin Powell.
The Afghanistan nation-building-experiment was dumb.
I blame Colin Powell.
Imjustheretohelpyoubuycrypto
Re: Let’s have a war!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60610840ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:26 pm So what would Ukraine look like today if no "lethal aid" was given? I dunno, about as fucked as it's pretty much always looked - as some struggling war-torn country, on the other side of the world, that has bickered with their asshole neighbors since pretty much always. Much of it is right there in trad's article.
Nero is an angler in the lake of darkness
Re: Let’s have a war!
looks pretty fucked.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Wait, so we DIDN’T go for freedom and democracy? Maybe I’m thinking of some other war…as an American it can be hard to keep track of them all.
Why wasn’t the Afghanistan war dumb?
I’ll guess cuz it gave us some outlet after we were collectively so pissed about 911?
Re: Let’s have a war!
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KUTradition
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Re: Let’s have a war!
sorry for the delay
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/hist ... vides-them
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
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KUTradition
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Re: Let’s have a war!
so are the sons and daughters of every NATO member country, presuming those countries all stay true to their pledgesousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:20 am
what’s your point?
that’s kinda a big reason to have such agreements, ya know? strength and stability in numbers. and, yet again, it’s what has largely been credited for more than a half century of relative peace in Europe
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
Re: Let’s have a war!
Relative peace with the exception of the consistently war torn fucked up mess that is Ukraine. Did you see the before and after the Russian invasion photos I posted. The place is no more a mess after the Russian invasion than it was before. If anything the Ukraine are better off now because they are getting fat from eating all the ammunition we sent them.KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:36 amso are the sons and daughters of every NATO member country, presuming those countries all stay true to their pledges
what’s your point?
that’s kinda a big reason to have such agreements, ya know? strength and stability in numbers. and, yet again, it’s what has largely been credited for more than a half century of relative peace in Europe
Nero is an angler in the lake of darkness
Re: Let’s have a war!
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:20 pm See, that’s a big source of our bickering. I think it’s silly to accept such an oversimplified good guy bad guy narrative.
Besides, didn’t nato bomb Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, and Kosovo?
not to mention all the countries nato bombed that weren’t, uh, on the European continent
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KUTradition
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Re: Let’s have a war!
why did NATO get involved in Bosnia?ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:08 amousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:20 pm See, that’s a big source of our bickering. I think it’s silly to accept such an oversimplified good guy bad guy narrative.
Besides, didn’t nato bomb Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, and Kosovo?
not to mention all the countries nato bombed that weren’t, uh, on the European continent
violation of a no-fly zone
Kosovo?
NATO action was actually against Yugoslavia after they invaded Kosovo…resulting in bloodshed and ethnic cleansing. russia and china wouldn’t approve of a UN resolution, but apparently in order to stop the atrocities, the rest of the UN decided to act anyway
you should really look more than just skin-deep into these conflicts you keep touting as some sort of proof of a big bad, war-mongering NATO
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?