Let’s have a war!

[TDub]

this sucks guys, I'm sorry, im gonna quit...

follows it up with more of the same

for like the 77th time.

[ousdahl]

Sorry TDub.

Taiwan is more or less a new development.

But, yea, considering the parallels, yea, it does feel like more of the same.

[KUTradition]

what knee is bent here? And is arms the only available course of action? Have we exhausted all diplomatic efforts? Have we even attempted diplomatic efforts?

my concern is less about who gets to decide to whom the US sells arms, and more something along the lines of, can't the US on the world stage be less of just some arms broker, and more of an adult in the room?

and, is the thought of selling arms supposed to end with that thought, as if selling arms is some god-given right to America; or are we allowed to consider the potential consequences this time?

seriously?

first, taiwan is being expected to bend the knee

second, any nation not acting freely for their own interests (regardless of what those might be) is essentially bending the knee

third, why are you asking about diplomacy? if you’re so curious, do your own research. you keep asking all these questions expecting answers you either aren’t going to get, or aren’t going to take to heart

probably most importantly, and one question that been asked of you numerous times, is a multi-parter…1) how, exactly, is the US going to stop/dismantle the MIC, and 2) what is the world supposed to do with the putins and milosevics of the world?

there are those in this world that are just wired differently…pure evil

what is your solution to dealing with those kinds of people, if not by force? and spare me the “more talking” bs…pushing for more diplomacy while people are literally dying and having their homes invaded is some pretty callous shit for someone trying to take some kind of moral high ground

[KUTradition]

and seriously, if you’re really this passionate, get your ass off the message boards and into politics…the only place you might actually be able to make the kinds of changes you seem to be after

[japhy]

once again, I'm sorry you guys. It sucks that this thread has to be so controversial. Going forward, I'm gonna avoid bickering. There's something about this thread that turns us into assholes, and I don't wanna be an asshole, so I'm gonna really try not to.

if I could try to make some grander observation, I really think the only difference between me and you guys is, I'm skeptical of everything surrounding the war narratives. All of them. From all the sides. I hope that's not stirring the pot to say that.

The difference seems to be that you have little, to no knowledge of the history of modern Europe. The questions you ask and the opinions you post seem bear that out.

I doubt you would find anyone one here that thinks the US does not have a bad history with regards to colonization/imperialism/military intervention. You just seem to be the only one who thinks Putin has some mitigating reason for his war crimes in this current invasion of Ukraine or that there is a diplomatic solution option at this point.

Have you not understood that Putin is and always has been a murderous psychopath? The biggest difference between the US and Russia is that there are no guardrails on Putin's actions. He answers to no one, and he has no conscience. Only ambitions and ego driving deluded visions of grandeur.

If you really want to understand quit asking everyone to educate you. Educate yourself and come back with a more informed discussion.

You can start here. It is long, but you have shown yourself to be in this for the long haul so embrace that and educate yourself. I have not watched them all. But his understanding of the history is purported to be we'll founded. Then get back to us.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... Mx1MaO6sw_

[ousdahl]

Good questions. I don’t mean to ignore, and intend to respond.

But, believe it or not, I’m too busy at work today to be able to spend much time researching global politics just for the fun of it.

I’ll do so when I can tho, and - again, believe it or not - in the most neutral tone and from most objective view I can manage.

In the meantime, hope you guys have a good day.

[KUTradition]

Good questions. I don’t mean to ignore, and intend to respond.

bullshit

i played along and answered your questions several pages back and you failed miserably to return the favor

[TDub]

Good questions. I don’t mean to ignore, and intend to respond.

bullshit

i played along and answered your questions several pages back and you failed miserably to return the favor

for 116 pages....


and...every thread

[KUTradition]

Tell you what.

I’ll answer that, if you first answer my question from earlier:

If Russia agreed to knock off their invasion bullshit if Ukraine agreed to not join nato, would you make that deal?

you never answered…shocking

[Deleted User 863]

once again, I'm sorry you guys. It sucks that this thread has to be so controversial.

It hasn't become controversial.


And the only reason you think it sucks is because nobody agrees with you AND your boys are basically telling you you're an idiot when it comes to a lot of this stuff. That's probably the sucky thing for you in this thread.

[ousdahl]

Yea, I realize no one agrees with me, at least not vocally.

Please realize calling me an idiot and various other names is mostly just antagonistic message bored bickering. I realize I’m guilty of it too, and again, I’m sorry. I’m trying to set a better example going forward.

Also realize “the boys” are just like 6-8 or so of the other posters in this thread, all of whom are apparently far more hawkish than the average person at large.

Or maybe it’s just that most of my friends in real life just don’t seem to get so michhawky about war. I dunno.

[ousdahl]

Tell you what.

I’ll answer that, if you first answer my question from earlier:

If Russia agreed to knock off their invasion bullshit if Ukraine agreed to not join nato, would you make that deal?

you never answered…shocking

Sorry dude, I thought I did.

No for real, I thought I made a joke like, well if Putin really wants to invade Goergia, could he at least take Florida too?

And, since I really do have to say it - I don’t want putin to actually invade Goergia or Florida or Maldova or Ukraine or anywhere else. No really.

[ousdahl]

Ousie, would you have preferred the “west” just let putin do his thing?

how about when he invaded Georgia, or Moldova next?

at what point should his aggressions be met with force? and whom should be meeting those aggressions? there are only so many cheeks to turn…

Pretty sure this is the post I failed to respond to the first time. Again, forgive me.

I don’t think the meeting questions witu force or the “let Putin do his thing” is a simple question to answer…unless we want to oversimplify it.

To keep it simple, no, I don’t want Putin to do his thing!

And this, again, is in no way an endorsement of Putin or anything he’s done!

It’s just that I don’t want the western military aggression to do its thing either.

I just, again, think it’s bonkers to have no awareness or sense of cause and effect as so the west’s actions, or to insist that they have nothing to do with anything here.

Like I said, I’m skeptical of everything here. I think Putin’s aggression AND the west’s aggression are all material to the problem, rather than being able to pick and choose which aggression is condemnable and which is OK.

[ousdahl]

…1) how, exactly, is the US going to stop/dismantle the MIC

This is a tough one. I’ll take a stab at it tho:


….vote?


It almost seems silly, right? At least since DC said voting is overrated and all. But, maybe if some majority of voters started developing more of an anti-war conscience rather than just tacitly if not explicitly cheering on war instead, then there wouldn’t be so many lawmakers signing off on so many MIC blank checks and the militant aggression that comes with.

That’s prob the best answer to that short of some systemic change kinda Qusdahl shit.

and 2) what is the world supposed to do with the putins and milosevics of the world?

there are those in this world that are just wired differently…pure evil

what is your solution to dealing with those kinds of people, if not by force? and spare me the “more talking” bs…pushing for more diplomacy while people are literally dying and having their homes invaded is some pretty callous shit for someone trying to take some kind of moral high ground

See, my concern is that there’s evidence out there that even Putin might be/have been more willing to negotiate. Other world powers wanted to negotiate too, including Zelensky. But the west wanted to escalate instead…didn’t we already post that shit here?

And AGAIN, this is not an endorsement of Putin, but Putin gets the boogeyman treatment as bad as anyone, which is precisely an effect of western propaganda. I’m not saying he’s good! Or that he’s even not as bad as the narrative suggests! I’m just saying it’s difficult to get a real good objective picture of things here.

If anything, I’m critical of the U.S. war machine. Please realize that criticism is valid, and not automatically bad guy propaganda.

Now, speaking of wired differently and pure evil, what is the world supposed to do with the Bidens and Trumps and Obamas and Bushes of the world? is everybody else really supposed to just put up with us?

https://www.salon.com/2022/01/11/the-us ... for-peace/

[ousdahl]

once again, I'm sorry you guys. It sucks that this thread has to be so controversial. Going forward, I'm gonna avoid bickering. There's something about this thread that turns us into assholes, and I don't wanna be an asshole, so I'm gonna really try not to.

if I could try to make some grander observation, I really think the only difference between me and you guys is, I'm skeptical of everything surrounding the war narratives. All of them. From all the sides. I hope that's not stirring the pot to say that.

The difference seems to be that you have little, to no knowledge of the history of modern Europe. The questions you ask and the opinions you post seem bear that out.

I doubt you would find anyone one here that thinks the US does not have a bad history with regards to colonization/imperialism/military intervention. You just seem to be the only one who thinks Putin has some mitigating reason for his war crimes in this current invasion of Ukraine or that there is a diplomatic solution option at this point.

Have you not understood that Putin is and always has been a murderous psychopath? The biggest difference between the US and Russia is that there are no guardrails on Putin's actions. He answers to no one, and he has no conscience. Only ambitions and ego driving deluded visions of grandeur.

If you really want to understand quit asking everyone to educate you. Educate yourself and come back with a more informed discussion.

You can start here. It is long, but you have shown yourself to be in this for the long haul so embrace that and educate yourself. I have not watched them all. But his understanding of the history is purported to be we'll founded. Then get back to us.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... Mx1MaO6sw_

Goddamnit Japhy. I’ve never once said Putin has some mitigating reason. I’ve condemned him repeatedly, and repeatedly asked you to stop accusing me of being some Russia sympathizer.

I’m critical of US colonization/imperialism/military intervention, exactly! And as such, and AGAIN, I’m critical of how we’ve handled Ukraine.

I don’t know how you can claim to have some awareness of our own problems surrounding colonization/imperialism/military intervention, yet simultaneously insist with such dogged confidence that Ukraine really is some simple battle of good and evil.

And speaking of criticism; and of no conscience, no guardrails, answering to no one; I think that’s more of a similarity between the US and Russia, than a difference.

Seriously, in this thread the only one trying to hold Merica accountable is Qusdahl, and look how you’ve treated they/them for it!

[KUTradition]

and 2) what is the world supposed to do with the putins and milosevics of the world?

there are those in this world that are just wired differently…pure evil

what is your solution to dealing with those kinds of people, if not by force? and spare me the “more talking” bs…pushing for more diplomacy while people are literally dying and having their homes invaded is some pretty callous shit for someone trying to take some kind of moral high ground

See, my concern is that there’s evidence out there that even Putin might be/have been more willing to negotiate. Other world powers wanted to negotiate too, including Zelensky. But the west wanted to escalate instead…didn’t we already post that shit here?

And AGAIN, this is not an endorsement of Putin, but Putin gets the boogeyman treatment as bad as anyone, which is precisely an effect of western propaganda. I’m not saying he’s good! Or that he’s even not as bad as the narrative suggests! I’m just saying it’s difficult to get a real good objective picture of things here.

If anything, I’m critical of the U.S. war machine. Please realize that criticism is valid, and not automatically bad guy propaganda.

Now, speaking of wired differently and pure evil, what is the world supposed to do with the Bidens and Trumps and Obamas and Bushes of the world? is everybody else really supposed to just put up with us?

https://www.salon.com/2022/01/11/the-us ... for-peace/

how does voting dismantle the MIC?

you didn’t answer either question, but thanks for the effort…i guess

[ousdahl]

I’m trying, ringo.

If we as voters elect progressive candidates into positions of power, then maybe, maybe, we can reign in the MIC, and slowly reallocate all the bloat toward things that actually improve the material conditions of human beings, rather than destruct them.

But, like DC said…

[MICHHAWK]

no thank you to progressives.

[KUTradition]

I’m trying, ringo.

If we as voters elect progressive candidates into positions of power, then maybe, maybe, we can reign in the MIC, and slowly reallocate all the bloat toward things that actually improve the material conditions of human beings, rather than destruct them.

But, like DC said…

that still doesn’t explain HOW it happens

and you haven’t even touched how to deal with the scum of the earth

quit saying your trying. that’s a piss-poor attempt if you truly are

[ousdahl]

and are you sure I didn’t answer them?

Or is it that you just didn’t like my answers, so you just knee jerk dismissed them, as has often been the case in this thread?

(Maybe I’ve been guilty of it too, but I’m trying to set a better example.)

If I could at least try asking, what WOULD have been an acceptable answer? Let’s have a war?