Let’s have a war!

[TDub]

Nazi aggression? good lord Qus. stay off the internet...you've been compromised

[KUTradition]

Qus going full gusher.

With his pro-russia propaganda, I thought it was Dinesh D'Sousdahl.

I was gonna try to steer clear of this mess, until you went to actual war in the QT thread, so quoting here to preserve the sanctity of the satellite bored.

If I may ask, how are you able to condemn the Russian aggression, yet condone the nazi aggression that prompted it?

And again, I’m anti-war, regardless of who’s picking the fight.

do you really believe that putin only did this to get “nazis”?

[PhDhawk]

I don't condone things that largely don't exist. I also don't condone the actions of the boogie man. We have a small, vocal group of nations in the US, I certainly don't consider our country to be nazi...and I wouldn't tolerate Russia invading us because if it.

More importantly Russia has a worse record of authoritarianism, and marginalising minority groups than Ukraine...so how do you justify that hypocrisy?

And look, Ukraine is not perfect, I'm sure, but they're not the aggressor here.

You trying to equate expansion of NATO with declaring war and invading a country is laughable.

[Qusdahl]

NO!

I believe there’s been a war within Ukraine for at least 8 years now, since the last big conflict there, when a “pro-Democratic” gummint was established, but not without its flaws or criticism.

That gummint’s muscle has been their national guard, the “Azov batallion,” a looosely organized group of militants who, BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, are full of neo-Nazis. They’ve also received weapons and military aid from - you guessed it! - the United States, in proxy support of their fight against Russia and pro-Russian separatists in eastern regions of Ukraine.

An estimated 14,000 folks have died in the fighting since, many of them civilians. Much of the fighting has been in the east part of Ukraine, in regions that consider themselves more Russian than Ukrainian, and that Russia considers independent states.

There’s even reports that those regions basically asked for Russia to intervene cuz they were tired of getting their asses kicked by Ukrainian militants (armed largely with U.S. weapons, or “lethal aid”, to use the euphemism we’ve preferred lately)

It’s a humanitarian clusterfuck. And by no means is Russian aggression the appropriate response. But it’s also not appropriate to not recognize it’s effectively some long-in-the-making proxy war against Russia, escalated by the U.S. and its homie NATO.

It just makes us propagandized westerners cringe to think that maybe Merican imperialism and foreign meddling could have possibly contributed to the problem here. Instead, we just get these stories in a vacuum about how Russia’s starting allll the trouble.

And it’s disingenuous to cry about the inhumanity of Russia if we also neglect to address the inhumanity that got us there.

Btw, this week the US also bombed Somalia, and Israel also bombed Syria, which I also posted in this very thread, but no one batted an eye about the inhumanity committed by those imperial aggressors. Just when Russia does it.

For real, has it ever occurred to anyone else that the United States might be the most imperially aggressive, and most propagandized nation ever?

[PhDhawk]

I wish the US was less involved with other countries too.


I feel even more strongly that a Putin led Russia should not be invading and attacking other countries.

I think one thing you're not considering is that US involvement may have prevented this from occurring for a long time and may have prevented it from being worse. I can't imagine Ukraine would be better off with less weapons and less support.

[Qusdahl]

I agree with your wish that the US was less involved with other counties, at least in some militant aggressive capacity.

But I dunno if I agree with your take that it’s relative; that Merican hostility is somehow less evil than Russian or any other hostility. I think it’s all evil.*

Care to elaborate?

Is that cuz we’ve been so conditioned to think Merica’a always the good guy?


*but at the very least, I can appreciate Merica enough in that it allows me to say such things…yaaay freedom. But I don’t think imperial aggression is a requisite for free speech. Plenty of other countries have free speech too, and without being assholes to the rest of the world.

[Qusdahl]

I think one thing you're not considering is that US involvement may have prevented this from occurring for a long time and may have prevented it from being worse. I can't imagine Ukraine would be better off with less weapons and less support.

Sure, it may have. I’m not super versed on the details of the 2014 conflict, with the annexation of Crimea and all, not to mention all the other historical dynamics with that nation and region. Are you?

But if US involvement was necessary, why’d it have to be militant involvement, rather than humanitarian?

Cuz here comes bleeding heart leftist me to say, we’d ALL be better off with less weapons.

I’d be curious if Russia woulda still attacked Ukraine cuz Merica was giving humanitarian aid. Cuz it otherwise seems like a gaslight to be the ones pumping weapons and military training into a region, and when someone retaliates, try to hide behind “but THEY started it!”

[PhDhawk]

Each situation is different Dinesh.

Still curious how a Jewish president was elected with 75% of the vote in a nazi country.

Or how this far right political party in a nazi country can only garner less than 3% of the popular vote.

Russia might be the biggest propaganda machine in the world, so maybe you need to look at your own conditioning. Since you're just reciting Russian talking points.

[PhDhawk]

I think one thing you're not considering is that US involvement may have prevented this from occurring for a long time and may have prevented it from being worse. I can't imagine Ukraine would be better off with less weapons and less support.

Sure, it may have. I’m not super versed on the details of the 2014 conflict, with the annexation of Crimea and all, not to mention all the other historical dynamics with that nation and region. Are you?

But if US involvement was necessary, why’d it have to be militant involvement, rather than humanitarian?

Cuz here comes bleeding heart leftist me to say, we’d ALL be better off with less weapons.

I’d be curious if Russia woulda still attacked Ukraine cuz Merica was giving humanitarian aid. Cuz it otherwise seems like a gaslight to be the ones pumping weapons and military training into a region, and when someone retaliates, try to hide behind “but THEY started it!”

I know that since it became independent Ukraine has a history of opting for peace and negotiating. And Russia has now attacked with military force and invaded multiple times.

[PhDhawk]

"

[Qusdahl]

God fucking damnit you Qwik Tripping piece of shit.

Heads up illy, you’re coming across as less interested in sincere dialogue, and more in childish antagonism. Could we try to talk like grownups here instead of resort to petty ownage?

What did I say that you perceive as Russian propaganda? What talking points, specifically?

Are you able to elaborate on how Ukraine has a history of opting for peace and negotiating?

And I didn’t realize their prez is Jewish. That IS curious, that a gummint with a Jewish president would also have a nazi national guard.

And fwiw I’m not familiar with Dinesh D’Souza.

[Qusdahl]

And if we may discuss Jewish people in Ukraine, why did that population go from nearly half a million in 1989, to only 67k as of 2014?

The list is under “post war situation” on this wiki page:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... in_Ukraine

[PhDhawk]

Isn't the Azov battalion like a thousand soldiers? Isn't their total military something like a million?

Like I said, I'm sure Ukraine has plenty of problems. You believing and defending Russia for de-nazi-fying is just gullible.

I'd guess every single country has some percentage of far right neo nazis....you gonna give Russia a pass on all of them?

[PhDhawk]

And if we may discuss Jewish people in Ukraine, why did that population go from nearly half a million in 1989, to only 67k as of 2014?

The list is under “post war situation” on this wiki page:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... in_Ukraine

I mean did you read your link? It's in there. It's because of the soviet union and carry over. But in your own link it says antisemitism has decreased in Ukraine.

So...Russia is trying to get the soviet band back together, while Ukraine is trying to join NATO and the EU. Yet you think Russia should take over based on who treats Jewish people better. Meanwhile the Jewish leaders in Ukraine condemn the invasion and want nothing to do with Putin.

[Qusdahl]

I didn’t realize the Azov battalion was apparently that small. So who, then, has been committing the alleged violence and genocide in Ukraine (with US-furnished weapons) for the past 8 years? Is it other 999k or so Ukraine soldiers?

I haven’t given Russia a pass about anything. In fact, I’ve repeatedly and consistently condemned their hostility. And I haven’t once said I thought Russia was de-nazifying a thing. Nice gaslight tho!

For real this is like if no one was allowed to understand the context of why a bunch of middle easterners flew planes into Merican buildings on 9/11, without automatically being a labeled a terrorist too.

[TDub]

I knew Qus was a Russian bot account

[PhDhawk]

Putins claims of genocide are baseless.

Now how do you defend the 17 million black Americans who've died fishing for trout in the rocky mountains the past 3 years, and how do you continue to fish when this genocide continues?

[PhDhawk]

Not defending Russia.

Just repeating the lies they're using as justification as being truthful over and over.

Got it.

[Qusdahl]

So...Russia is trying to get the soviet band back together, while Ukraine is trying to join NATO and the EU.

Wait, so Putin is trying to re-establish a socialist economy too, and transfer property from oligarchs to the state and such? Cuz if not, then he’s not trying to get the Soviet band back together, just the Russian empire.

And is Ukraine trying to join NATO and the EU? Like, ALL of the Ukraine? Even the eastern parts that would rather be part of Russia?

Yet you think Russia should take over based on who treats Jewish people better.

More gaslighting.

I swear, the true radical extremist isn’t actually me, so much as it is your guy’s distorted self-serving perception of me.

[PhDhawk]

For real this is like if no one was allowed to understand the context of why a bunch of middle easterners flew planes into Merican buildings on 9/11, without automatically being a labeled a terrorist too.

Honestly what you're doing feels a lot more like lobster bringing up George Floyd's criminal history and drug use.