Let’s have a war!

[zsn]

It’s not that I think that US foreign policy is bad, period.

It’s that I think that when our own foreign policy and military is to be actively sowing discord, sending guns and bombs, training fighters, etc. in places like Ukraine and Taiwan - which is to say, places we’re using as proxies on the respective doorsteps of bigger imperial rivals - I just don’t think it should be that big a surprise when said rivals start “patrolling” our doorsteps, too.

And, thank the lord it’s only patrolling, right? The last headline I saw said that US officials don’t consider the patrolling to be a threat.

Hopefully the imperial rivals’ patrolling doesn’t escalate to arming proxies on our doorstep too!

Looks like you’re haunted by the ghost of Rep Hamilton Fish III.

[DCHawk1]

are you aware of what iran has been doing in the Straight of Hormuz?

are you aware of what both china and russia have been doing of the coast of Alaska?

Do you ever wonder why?

[KUTradition]

are you aware of what iran has been doing in the Straight of Hormuz?

are you aware of what both china and russia have been doing of the coast of Alaska?

Do you ever wonder why?

sure

but i also think i’ve got a pretty good idea, generally: they don’t like a US-led world order

[DCHawk1]

Ah. OK.

This is new?

[ousdahl]

It’s not that I think that US foreign policy is bad, period.

It’s that I think that when our own foreign policy and military is to be actively sowing discord, sending guns and bombs, training fighters, etc. in places like Ukraine and Taiwan - which is to say, places we’re using as proxies on the respective doorsteps of bigger imperial rivals - I just don’t think it should be that big a surprise when said rivals start “patrolling” our doorsteps, too.

And, thank the lord it’s only patrolling, right? The last headline I saw said that US officials don’t consider the patrolling to be a threat.

Hopefully the imperial rivals’ patrolling doesn’t escalate to arming proxies on our doorstep too!

Looks like you’re haunted by the ghost of Rep Hamilton Fish III.

I don’t get it. Care to elaborate?

A cursory search suggests he was some lawmaker who was doggedly anti-commie while also maybe a little too cozy with nazism…?

[ousdahl]

except the US wasn’t providing any sort of appreciable level of military support to Ukraine until russia decided to bully…and even then, it was only non-lethal until 2017

I guess what we’re still disagreeing about, is whether the whole “Russia decided to bully” thing is really so simple, and such a cut-and-dry sequence of events

And also whether the US has some obligation to provide military support, and whether that US “lethal aid” has made the situation better or worse.

[zsn]

It’s not that I think that US foreign policy is bad, period.

It’s that I think that when our own foreign policy and military is to be actively sowing discord, sending guns and bombs, training fighters, etc. in places like Ukraine and Taiwan - which is to say, places we’re using as proxies on the respective doorsteps of bigger imperial rivals - I just don’t think it should be that big a surprise when said rivals start “patrolling” our doorsteps, too.

And, thank the lord it’s only patrolling, right? The last headline I saw said that US officials don’t consider the patrolling to be a threat.

Hopefully the imperial rivals’ patrolling doesn’t escalate to arming proxies on our doorstep too!

Looks like you’re haunted by the ghost of Rep Hamilton Fish III.

I don’t get it. Care to elaborate?

A cursory search suggests he was some lawmaker who was doggedly anti-commie while also maybe a little too cozy with nazism…?

He was not just cozy…….he was a vehicle for George Vierieck, the Nazi operative in the US. Fish was so opposed to FDR (he was also FDR’s Representative!) that he opposed everything FDR supported. He was a very easy target for the Nazis.

Much like how the Republicans of today are easy marks for Putin. Eighty years ago one bully divided America for his gain. Now another one is running with the same playbook.

To his credit, Fish wasn’t necessarily motivated by White Supremacy. He played an important role in the Civil Rights movement.

As I’ve recommended before, listen to Maddow’s Ultra podcast.

[ousdahl]

Zsn, which republicans do you think are marks for Putin? Please be specific.

And do you think the Ukraine war, of all things, has divided Merica?

If anything, it seems to have potentially done more to unite a majority Americans, in almost a post -9/11 kinda way, against anyone who tries to make any criticism of our own warmongering - just look at this thread! - despite the Ukraine war arriving on the coattails of the egg-on-face that was Afghanistan and Iraq.

But, man, that post. Comparing Putin to literal Hitler, while also giving credit to some nazi. Or, would you please articulate how this nazi was also a champion of civil rights?

[KUTradition]

lol

[ousdahl]

Right?

[jfish26]

It’s not that I think that US foreign policy is bad, period.

It’s that I think that when our own foreign policy and military is to be actively sowing discord, sending guns and bombs, training fighters, etc. in places like Ukraine and Taiwan - which is to say, places we’re using as proxies on the respective doorsteps of bigger imperial rivals - I just don’t think it should be that big a surprise when said rivals start “patrolling” our doorsteps, too.

And, thank the lord it’s only patrolling, right? The last headline I saw said that US officials don’t consider the patrolling to be a threat.

Hopefully the imperial rivals’ patrolling doesn’t escalate to arming proxies on our doorstep too!

Looks like you’re haunted by the ghost of Rep Hamilton Fish III.

You leave my great uncle Ham out of this.

[Shirley]

[zsn]

Zsn, which republicans do you think are marks for Putin? Please be specific.

And do you think the Ukraine war, of all things, has divided Merica?

If anything, it seems to have potentially done more to unite a majority Americans, in almost a post -9/11 kinda way, against anyone who tries to make any criticism of our own warmongering - just look at this thread! - despite the Ukraine war arriving on the coattails of the egg-on-face that was Afghanistan and Iraq.

But, man, that post. Comparing Putin to literal Hitler, while also giving credit to some nazi. Or, would you please articulate how this nazi was also a champion of civil rights?

Which Republican isn’t a Putin tool? Maybe Lindsay, because he’s a Military Industrial Complex shill?

Your arguments here and the rest of the MAGA cult are evidence that Russian invasion of Ukraine has divided us. But your characterization of how it’s united the country is showing how you have bought into the division.

Actual Hitler attacked his neighbors and built a propaganda machine to stave off governments forming an alliance against him. How is what Putin doing any different? He has kompramat on the cult master, thus dividing public opinion in the one country capable of organizing an opposition.

It’s easy enough to read the biography of Hamilton Fish III and the America First movement.

[DCHawk1]

$13b

[KUTradition]

what’s that, like 7%?

[KUTradition]

here’s a hypothetical:

what should the response be if china or russia starts mining and harvesting minerals on the moon?

[ousdahl]

Howsabout a prescribed #StandWithTheMoon campaign by western media?

We can put it on porch flags and bumper stickers and everything!

Then have congress and potus pleading for more and more lethal aid by the billions to “the moon people.”

And if you question it, don’t question it, oh DO NOT question it, that’s just you being a Putin parrot to divide the country!

[ousdahl]

Zsn, which republicans do you think are marks for Putin? Please be specific.

And do you think the Ukraine war, of all things, has divided Merica?

If anything, it seems to have potentially done more to unite a majority Americans, in almost a post -9/11 kinda way, against anyone who tries to make any criticism of our own warmongering - just look at this thread! - despite the Ukraine war arriving on the coattails of the egg-on-face that was Afghanistan and Iraq.

But, man, that post. Comparing Putin to literal Hitler, while also giving credit to some nazi. Or, would you please articulate how this nazi was also a champion of civil rights?

Which Republican isn’t a Putin tool? Maybe Lindsay, because he’s a Military Industrial Complex shill?

Your arguments here and the rest of the MAGA cult are evidence that Russian invasion of Ukraine has divided us. But your characterization of how it’s united the country is showing how you have bought into the division.

Actual Hitler attacked his neighbors and built a propaganda machine to stave off governments forming an alliance against him. How is what Putin doing any different? He has kompramat on the cult master, thus dividing public opinion in the one country capable of organizing an opposition.

It’s easy enough to read the biography of Hamilton Fish III and the America First movement.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have historically voted overwhelmingly in favor of all sorts of Ukraine aid.

What other foreign war has received so much attention and support from the folks here? The moon people is a spot-on analogy, even if satire.

And maybe it’s just my own perception, but any opposition to the war is a minority of magaheads, and a much smaller minority of they/them. Everyone else is hawkishly thirsting for Russian blood, just like decades of Cold War propaganda has conditioned us to do.

And come on, every boogeyman ever since WW2 has drawn comparisons to Hitler.

And, since I really need to still do this - no, I’m not a MAGAhead.

[KUTradition]

Howsabout a prescribed #StandWithTheMoon campaign by western media?

We can put it on porch flags and bumper stickers and everything!

Then have congress and potus pleading for more and more lethal aid by the billions to “the moon people.”

And if you question it, don’t question it, oh DO NOT question it, that’s just you being a Putin parrot to divide the country!

quality contribution…bro

[KUTradition]

https://apnews.com/article/un-georgia-r ... %20regions.