Let’s have a war!

[jfish26]

Oh, so as long as I preface statements with, “Putin claimed…,” then I’ll be in the clear?

As if I don’t get ridiculed for parroting Putin enough!

It is substantially different to say that Putin is justified by US/NATO actions (which is what you said), as compared with saying that Putin claims his actions are justified by US/NATO actions (which is what you now seem to say you meant).

I don't think anyone would bother parsing the difference here, except that what you SAID is of a piece with other defenses/excuses (by you) of Putin's war of aggression and conquest against Ukraine.

And the defenses/excuses you have, at a minimum, expressed some sympathy toward...are very much pro-Putin talking points. And that's the fundamental thing people have said to you about your posts on this topic: whether you desire to, or not, you simply DO uncritically adopt pro-Putin talking points!

[twocoach]

Oh, so as long as I preface statements with, “Putin claimed…,” then I’ll be in the clear?

As if I don’t get ridiculed for parroting Putin enough!

Understanding the difference between a claim and a matter of fact would get you in the clear but based on the history of this thread, that doesn't seem to be in the cards.

[ousdahl]

you guys.

AGAIN, I fucking PROMISE you I'm not pro-Putin. I've been very explicitly and consistently critical of his warmongering!

AGAIN, I think what you fail to distinguish, is I'm critical of the US and NATO's warmongering too.

AGAIN, you continue to seem to think the Russian invasion of Ukraine happened in some sorta vacuum, and you're attacking me for trying to consider any context or material conditions beyond that.

AGAIN, just accept that you give the US a pass when it comes to warmongering, war crimes, staging coups, and militantly fucking around across the entire world.

AGAIN, and you expect the entire world to just put up with it! But if they try for anything remotely similar, you clutch pearls, double down on the good guy bad guy world views, and aggressively attack me for questioning the "WMDs in Iraq"-style rhetoric, just like the rhetoric has conditioned you to do!

[ousdahl]

Oh, so as long as I preface statements with, “Putin claimed…,” then I’ll be in the clear?

As if I don’t get ridiculed for parroting Putin enough!

It is substantially different to say that Putin is justified by US/NATO actions (which is what you said), as compared with saying that Putin claims his actions are justified by US/NATO actions (which is what you now seem to say you meant).

I don't think anyone would bother parsing the difference here, except that what you SAID is of a piece with other defenses/excuses (by you) of Putin's war of aggression and conquest against Ukraine.

And the defenses/excuses you have, at a minimum, expressed some sympathy toward...are very much pro-Putin talking points. And that's the fundamental thing people have said to you about your posts on this topic: whether you desire to, or not, you simply DO uncritically adopt pro-Putin talking points!

I didn't say Putin is justified about a goddamn thing.

also, reported.

[jfish26]

Oh, so as long as I preface statements with, “Putin claimed…,” then I’ll be in the clear?

As if I don’t get ridiculed for parroting Putin enough!

It is substantially different to say that Putin is justified by US/NATO actions (which is what you said), as compared with saying that Putin claims his actions are justified by US/NATO actions (which is what you now seem to say you meant).

I don't think anyone would bother parsing the difference here, except that what you SAID is of a piece with other defenses/excuses (by you) of Putin's war of aggression and conquest against Ukraine.

And the defenses/excuses you have, at a minimum, expressed some sympathy toward...are very much pro-Putin talking points. And that's the fundamental thing people have said to you about your posts on this topic: whether you desire to, or not, you simply DO uncritically adopt pro-Putin talking points!

I didn't say Putin is justified about a goddamn thing.

also, reported.

What you've said on this matter can speak for itself.

Again, I don't think you're pro-Putin. I think you're struggling to square your desire NOT to be pro-Putin, with (1) your opinions on the United States' prior, blameworthy actions, and (2) a general bent against war and conflict.

In my opinion, Putin's war of aggression and conquest on Ukraine is not even a tiny little bit justified by Ukrainian nazis, the United States' history of imperialism/colonialism, NATO arming Ukraine and moving assets closer to Russia, none of it. And, as you can see, I have a very strong negative reaction to any suggestion in that direction.

[jfish26]

Also - I will say this here rather than over PM, because I think it's important (I mean, to the extent anything here is important, which of course it's not) to say some things out loud:

I have no personal issue with you. I like you. A lot!

I have an issue with what you're saying on this and Israel/Hamas, because my opinion is that you are being misled (I understand you think that I am being misled).

In any case, have a good evening.

[ousdahl]

That’s actually pretty great to hear.

I’m glad we can bicker on the pols bored and not take it personally.

Have a good evening yourself. I like you too, man.

(except in the QT thread)

[Sparko]

Agree with Fish.

[ousdahl]

When the Economist goes full Onion


https://www.economist.com/finance-and-e ... -investors

[ousdahl]

(straight from Putin's own mouth)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-e ... rcna123628

U.S., European officials broach topic of peace negotiations with Ukraine, sources say

The conversations have included very broad outlines of what Ukraine might need to give up to reach a deal with Russia.

[TDub]

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/37 ... coast.html

[KUTradition]

i’m shocked (not really) there’s been zero mention of the restraint the US has shown as of late, given all of the attacks US forces have seen over the past few weeks

[MICHHAWK]

in that warmongering old mans defense. we are currently funding two wars.

but i get your point. i too wish we would just go ahead and blow that $#!thole off the earth.

[jfish26]

in that warmongering old mans defense. we are currently funding two wars.

but i get your point. i too wish we would just go ahead and blow that $#!thole off the earth.

Which shithole, specifically?

[jhawks99]

in that warmongering old mans defense. we are currently funding two wars.

but i get your point. i too wish we would just go ahead and blow that $#!thole off the earth.

Which shithole, specifically?

Mich wants to nuke all brown people.

[jfish26]

in that warmongering old mans defense. we are currently funding two wars.

but i get your point. i too wish we would just go ahead and blow that $#!thole off the earth.

Which shithole, specifically?

Mich wants to nuke all brown people.

That's a lotta shitholes!

[ousdahl]

(Back to our regularly scheduled programming)


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... hervinsky/


Ukrainian military officer coordinated Nord Stream pipeline attack

[jhawks99]

(Back to our regularly scheduled programming)


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... hervinsky/


Ukrainian military officer coordinated Nord Stream pipeline attack

Good

[Shirley]

(Back to our regularly scheduled programming)


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... hervinsky/


Ukrainian military officer coordinated Nord Stream pipeline attack

Good

In their place, there's no question whatsoever we'd do the same thing.

[KUTradition]

apparently, a Ukrainian sniper took out a target at a distance of 3.8 km (~2.3 mi), breaking a world record for such things