Let’s have a war!

[Qusdahl]

sooo you're declining the invite to protest with me, then?

[TDub]

in your current state id be declining to do many things with you.

Also, I've got to work and make money while I can...who knows where this is headed long term but it seems we are the precipice of some world changing/world economy changing events that might lead to some lean times.

[MICHHAWK]

if putin were to get himself assassinated, problem solved.

[jfish26]

yeah, Ukraine should just re-draw their borders because vlad is playing neighborhood bully

seriously?

we should all get along now? after this aggression? after crimea? after georgia?

have you not learned anything?

hugs, kisses, and kumbaya will only embolden putin (and other world leaders cut from the same cloth) further. news flash, ousie, we’re not all gonna magically get along. there are assholes in this world, regardless of how many flowers you put in their rifle barrels.

I've been thinking about this a lot this morning. The most obvious offramp here is letting Russia keep the Donbas (make it like Crimea I guess), BUT...knowing what we know, among other good reasons that's a terrible idea, it would be insanely fucking stupid to let the effective border with Russia move any closer to the cities.

I do wonder if there's going to be backroom pressure on Zelensky from EU/NATO on this point, though, perhaps even to the point of offering admission if Ukraine will offer this path.

If I'm Ukraine, though, (1) fuck off, and (2) any negotiated resolution must include (a) Russia's agreement to not have offensive equipment within [xxx] KM from the border, and (b) the renewal of Open Skies.

[jfish26]

Former ambassador to Russia has a message for our boy Qus

Just spitballing here: Biden stops acting like some boomer imperialist in a dick measuring contest and acts like the bigger person and calls Putin and says those drones will back off if those evil commie Soviets ceases fire too. Let’s not do something dumb here like world war 3.

And - since Q’s such a foreign policy expert and shit now - let’s concede parts of Ukraine for other parts of Ukraine or whatever, depending on whatever Ukraine wants to do.

And maybe we concede the red States to trump and declare him president of those so he will stop causing chaos here in the US?

Fuck appeasement.

putin is too much of a narcissist to put himself in actual danger of dying, just like his meat puppet trump. And putin can't afford to be poor, the rest of the oligarchs will roast him on a spit. They may already be discussing it in private. putin overreached. He didn't expect NATO to circle the wagons the way they have. Even the putin wing of the GQP is coming under fire for backing that whiney little pasty ass reptilian bitch putin. The GQP overreached as well. The more they publicly sober over putin's tiny dick and roll in the mud with the white supremacists the more they turn off voters. This might hurt them come election time.

Very dangerous to be Putin right now. He's losing support on both ends (oligarchs AND proletariats).

[japhy]

Speaking of propaganda…

And the difference between this and those other atrocities, is this one has the potential to escalate into a civilization ending nuclear event. Those moments of potential worldwide human annihilation don't come around very often. It is good to know that so many people all over the world are willing to pull together to stop this. The troubling thing would be if there weren't more outrage over this event.

And we are outraged over nuclear annihilation of all life on the planet because we "were told to"? One of the dumbest fucking statements ever.

I just got back form the Empire yesterday. I will be back out there in a few weeks. Bring your Ukrainian flags and we will march from one end of town to the other.

[twocoach]

is this Q's lobster moment?


I agree the amount of wrong information and propaganda is astounding. I agree none of us know the truths about 98% of this.

But, this approach of defending the aggressor by way of slandering and generalizing the attacked is......odd. The entrenched stance in the face of potentially more reliable information is....lobster like.

The nice part is that I don't need to pick a side. There is no propaganda that is going to change my opinion that Russia is a dangerous, morally bankrupt state that needs to be kept in check. Are there some individual people or groups in Ukraine who are probably also morally bankrupt? Sure, I would expect that is the case in every country in the world. It changes nothing.

I just need my government to take the necessary actions to keep Russia from waltzing through Europe invading sovereign countries without paying for it dearly.

[japhy]

Just spitballing here: Biden stops acting like some boomer imperialist in a dick measuring contest and acts like the bigger person and calls Putin and says those drones will back off if those evil commie Soviets ceases fire too. Let’s not do something dumb here like world war 3.

And - since Q’s such a foreign policy expert and shit now - let’s concede parts of Ukraine for other parts of Ukraine or whatever, depending on whatever Ukraine wants to do.

And maybe we concede the red States to trump and declare him president of those so he will stop causing chaos here in the US?

Fuck appeasement.

putin is too much of a narcissist to put himself in actual danger of dying, just like his meat puppet trump. And putin can't afford to be poor, the rest of the oligarchs will roast him on a spit. They may already be discussing it in private. putin overreached. He didn't expect NATO to circle the wagons the way they have. Even the putin wing of the GQP is coming under fire for backing that whiney little pasty ass reptilian bitch putin. The GQP overreached as well. The more they publicly sober over putin's tiny dick and roll in the mud with the white supremacists the more they turn off voters. This might hurt them come election time.

Very dangerous to be Putin right now. He's losing support on both ends (oligarchs AND proletariats).

Somebody better be checking their Wheaties for polonium sprinkles.

[NewtonHawk11]

Russia got the Swiss involved. They're fucked.

[NewtonHawk11]

Just spitballing here: Biden stops acting like some boomer imperialist in a dick measuring contest and acts like the bigger person and calls Putin and says those drones will back off if those evil commie Soviets ceases fire too. Let’s not do something dumb here like world war 3.

And - since Q’s such a foreign policy expert and shit now - let’s concede parts of Ukraine for other parts of Ukraine or whatever, depending on whatever Ukraine wants to do.

And maybe we concede the red States to trump and declare him president of those so he will stop causing chaos here in the US?

Fuck appeasement.

putin is too much of a narcissist to put himself in actual danger of dying, just like his meat puppet trump. And putin can't afford to be poor, the rest of the oligarchs will roast him on a spit. They may already be discussing it in private. putin overreached. He didn't expect NATO to circle the wagons the way they have. Even the putin wing of the GQP is coming under fire for backing that whiney little pasty ass reptilian bitch putin. The GQP overreached as well. The more they publicly sober over putin's tiny dick and roll in the mud with the white supremacists the more they turn off voters. This might hurt them come election time.

Very dangerous to be Putin right now. He's losing support on both ends (oligarchs AND proletariats).

Once you lose favor with the oligarchs, you're screwed.

[twocoach]

yeah, Ukraine should just re-draw their borders because vlad is playing neighborhood bully

seriously?

we should all get along now? after this aggression? after crimea? after georgia?

have you not learned anything?

hugs, kisses, and kumbaya will only embolden putin (and other world leaders cut from the same cloth) further. news flash, ousie, we’re not all gonna magically get along. there are assholes in this world, regardless of how many flowers you put in their rifle barrels.

I've been thinking about this a lot this morning. The most obvious offramp here is letting Russia keep the Donbas (make it like Crimea I guess), BUT...knowing what we know, among other good reasons that's a terrible idea, it would be insanely fucking stupid to let the effective border with Russia move any closer to the cities.

I do wonder if there's going to be backroom pressure on Zelensky from EU/NATO on this point, though, perhaps even to the point of offering admission if Ukraine will offer this path.

If I'm Ukraine, though, (1) fuck off, and (2) any negotiated resolution must include (a) Russia's agreement to not have offensive equipment within [xxx] KM from the border, and (b) the renewal of Open Skies.

If someone breaks into your house and refuses to leave, you shouldn't have to give them ownership of a portion of your property to get them to leave. Russia can get fucked back to the Stone Age for all I care. Russia should get anything but a bill to clean up their mess.

[jfish26]

yeah, Ukraine should just re-draw their borders because vlad is playing neighborhood bully

seriously?

we should all get along now? after this aggression? after crimea? after georgia?

have you not learned anything?

hugs, kisses, and kumbaya will only embolden putin (and other world leaders cut from the same cloth) further. news flash, ousie, we’re not all gonna magically get along. there are assholes in this world, regardless of how many flowers you put in their rifle barrels.

I've been thinking about this a lot this morning. The most obvious offramp here is letting Russia keep the Donbas (make it like Crimea I guess), BUT...knowing what we know, among other good reasons that's a terrible idea, it would be insanely fucking stupid to let the effective border with Russia move any closer to the cities.

I do wonder if there's going to be backroom pressure on Zelensky from EU/NATO on this point, though, perhaps even to the point of offering admission if Ukraine will offer this path.

If I'm Ukraine, though, (1) fuck off, and (2) any negotiated resolution must include (a) Russia's agreement to not have offensive equipment within [xxx] KM from the border, and (b) the renewal of Open Skies.

If someone breaks into your house and refuses to leave, you shouldn't have to give them ownership of a portion of your property to get them to leave. Russia can get fucked back to the Stone Age for all I care. Russia should get anything but a bill to clean up their mess.

That's all well and good, except that a disturbingly high number of branches on the outcomes tree here end with global thermonuclear war.

[MICHHAWK]

Russia can get fucked back to the Stone Age for all I care. Russia should get anything but a bill to clean up their mess.

yep.

[twocoach]

I've been thinking about this a lot this morning. The most obvious offramp here is letting Russia keep the Donbas (make it like Crimea I guess), BUT...knowing what we know, among other good reasons that's a terrible idea, it would be insanely fucking stupid to let the effective border with Russia move any closer to the cities.

I do wonder if there's going to be backroom pressure on Zelensky from EU/NATO on this point, though, perhaps even to the point of offering admission if Ukraine will offer this path.

If I'm Ukraine, though, (1) fuck off, and (2) any negotiated resolution must include (a) Russia's agreement to not have offensive equipment within [xxx] KM from the border, and (b) the renewal of Open Skies.

If someone breaks into your house and refuses to leave, you shouldn't have to give them ownership of a portion of your property to get them to leave. Russia can get fucked back to the Stone Age for all I care. Russia should get anything but a bill to clean up their mess.

That's all well and good, except that a disturbingly high number of branches on the outcomes tree here end with global thermonuclear war.

I personally feel that Putin is too vain and self absorbed to do something as silly as launch nuclear weapons. Russians are driven to accumulate wealth and power and you can't enjoy having those things if you are dead. Russians don't tend to be the overreactive hissy fit types.

[jfish26]

If someone breaks into your house and refuses to leave, you shouldn't have to give them ownership of a portion of your property to get them to leave. Russia can get fucked back to the Stone Age for all I care. Russia should get anything but a bill to clean up their mess.

That's all well and good, except that a disturbingly high number of branches on the outcomes tree here end with global thermonuclear war.

I personally feel that Putin is too vain and self absorbed to do something as silly as launch nuclear weapons. Russians are driven to accumulate wealth and power and you can't enjoy having those things if you are dead. Russians don't tend to be the overreactive hissy fit types.

But, what's the acceptable degree of risk in the case you're wrong? A 1% chance of you being wrong? 0.1%? 0.00001%?

The problem is there's no coming back from being wrong. At best, you're looking at hundreds of thousands dead and a new world order that will take at least the rest of our lives to sort.

[NewtonHawk11]

Mich and dahl are on complete opposite sides of what I thought they would be with this conflict.

What a board.

[twocoach]

That's all well and good, except that a disturbingly high number of branches on the outcomes tree here end with global thermonuclear war.

I personally feel that Putin is too vain and self absorbed to do something as silly as launch nuclear weapons. Russians are driven to accumulate wealth and power and you can't enjoy having those things if you are dead. Russians don't tend to be the overreactive hissy fit types.

But, what's the acceptable degree of risk in the case you're wrong? A 1% chance of you being wrong? 0.1%? 0.00001%?

The problem is there's no coming back from being wrong. At best, you're looking at hundreds of thousands dead and a new world order that will take at least the rest of our lives to sort.

There is ZERO risk in me being wrong because I do not make any decisions that have any impact to the situation. I assume that the decision makers have a better feel for the risk and are acting accordingly.

[Qusdahl]

Mich and dahl are on complete opposite sides of what I thought they would be with this conflict.

What a board.

What side you think I’m on, exactly?

[jfish26]

I personally feel that Putin is too vain and self absorbed to do something as silly as launch nuclear weapons. Russians are driven to accumulate wealth and power and you can't enjoy having those things if you are dead. Russians don't tend to be the overreactive hissy fit types.

But, what's the acceptable degree of risk in the case you're wrong? A 1% chance of you being wrong? 0.1%? 0.00001%?

The problem is there's no coming back from being wrong. At best, you're looking at hundreds of thousands dead and a new world order that will take at least the rest of our lives to sort.

There is ZERO risk in me being wrong because I do not make any decisions that have any impact to the situation. I assume that the decision makers have a better feel for the risk and are acting accordingly.

Oh Jesus Christ. Of course I didn't mean you.

But the point stands. The EU in particular should not have much risk tolerance on this issue...so, yes, Ukraine might need to give away some things that it really should not have to give away.

[twocoach]

Mich and dahl are on complete opposite sides of what I thought they would be with this conflict.

What a board.

What side you think I’m on, exactly?

Some have simply decided what side you're on for you so they have someone to argue with. It happens to fence sitters all the time. At this point, trying to clarify seems to be a waste of your time.