Let’s have a war!

[KUTradition]

“I think it's that so many of you guys don't even realize how conditioned we are to reduce it to some good guy bad guy narrative and just "pick a side," and it bugs you that I'd rather pick some more comprehensive anti-war stance instead.“

your stance has zero practicality in the world today, imo, which is why so many have given you a hard time about the kumbaya rhetoric

i even said that i think your thoughts/ideas come from a good, sincere place…they’re just not practical. the US can’t just sit idly by and let the rest of the world do whatever it wants. we have to be an active participant

we weren’t an active participant in WWII until Pearl Harbor. had we gotten involved sooner and worked with our allies, who knows how many tens of millions of deaths might have been prevented

[KUTradition]

“Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Syria, or Yemen”

are these really the examples your going to use?

maybe you should look into the histories of those countries and their neighbors, then we might be able to have a discussion about them as it relates to war, genocide and war-mongering

[Deleted User 863]

“Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Syria, or Yemen”

are these really the examples your going to use?

maybe you should look into the histories of those countries and their neighbors, then we might be able to have a discussion about them as it relates to war, genocide and war-mongering

NATO and USA fault.

[ousdahl]

well, did the NATO and USA do anything to materially improve the conditions in those countries?

Or just show up and be a bunch of militant assholes ourselves, then GTFO as hastily as we could while we just kinda tossed the reigns back over to the Taliban on the way out?

[ousdahl]

“I think it's that so many of you guys don't even realize how conditioned we are to reduce it to some good guy bad guy narrative and just "pick a side," and it bugs you that I'd rather pick some more comprehensive anti-war stance instead.“

your stance has zero practicality in the world today, imo, which is why so many have given you a hard time about the kumbaya rhetoric

i even said that i think your thoughts/ideas come from a good, sincere place…they’re just not practical. the US can’t just sit idly by and let the rest of the world do whatever it wants. we have to be an active participant

we weren’t an active participant in WWII until Pearl Harbor. had we gotten involved sooner and worked with our allies, who knows how many tens of millions of deaths might have been prevented

good post! We might be getting somewhere!

the only reason my thoughts aren't "practical" is because we collectively try so hard to refuse to let them be practical.

Warmongering is inevitable, necessary, practical, but that worldview ain't kooky! The only kooky one is Q trying to wish better for the world! That kook!

/thread

[KUTradition]

it’s not a world view…it’s human nature

how do you suggest the world deal with tyrants?

i’d love it if magically we could snap our fingers and everyone would get along and share resources equitably, and treat everyone equitably

but that ain’t happening

it hasn’t happened in the last 3+ million years

the point was made previously, but it’s worth repeating - the relative peace that Europe has seen for the last 70 years us BECAUSE OF NATO, not in spite of it. in fact, really the only skirmishes in Europe during that time have come from none other than russia…surprise, surprise

[Deleted User 863]

well, did the NATO and USA do anything to materially improve the conditions in those countries?

Or just show up and be a bunch of militant assholes ourselves, then GTFO as hastily as we could while we just kinda tossed the reigns back over to the Taliban on the way out?

What about before NATO or the USA even existed? Familiar with the history of those places? Never ending wars as far back as the history books go.

[KUTradition]

i was curious (and wanted to do a good deed), so i did some searching to try and get a good idea of global media bias

multiple sites were in agreement on at least some of least biased news outlets globally

AP
Reuters
BBC
WSJ
NPR
Aljazeera
Christian Science Monitor
CBS
The Economist

*no mention of twitter followings

[ousdahl]

it’s not a world view…it’s human nature

It’s human nature to fuck everything that moves too, but somehow we’ve evolved to value something more than that.

how do you suggest the world deal with tyrants?

Maybe we could establish systems that work to share resources equitably and treat everyone equitably, rather than let tyrants establish systems of resource hoarding and inequality?

i’d love it if magically we could snap our fingers and everyone would get along and share resources equitably, and treat everyone equitably

but that ain’t happening

Not with that world view, it ain’t. My last point was spoken too soon.

it hasn’t happened in the last 3+ million years

As Japhy pointed out, there have been plenty of examples of indigenous communities working together to take care of each other and allocate resources equitably, for more effectively than any large-scale state-established attempted at such “communal” living.

Imho the fate of the world relies largely on somehow figuring out that collective communal mindset despite previously failed attempts.

the point was made previously, but it’s worth repeating - the relative peace that Europe has seen for the last 70 years us BECAUSE OF NATO, not in spite of it. in fact, really the only skirmishes in Europe during that time have come from none other than russia…surprise, surprise

This is a point I’ll have to research more, as well. But it sounds like the relative peace achieved in Europe was the credit not necessarily of NATO exclusively and explicitly, but generally in some collective willingness to just get along.

So how do we spread that vibe beyond Europe?

If NATO today does more to to militarize foreign relations than it does to communalize, is that really what we need?

[KUTradition]

“As Japhy pointed out, there have been plenty of examples of indigenous communities working together to take care of each other and allocate resources equitably, for more effectively than any large-scale state-established attempted at such “communal” living.”

how long did those few examples last, and why don’t they exist currently?

[KUTradition]

“If NATO today does more to to militarize foreign relations than it does to communalize, is that really what we need?”

who is NATO militarizing and why?

[ousdahl]

“Who is NATO militarizing and why?”

ummm

Take, for instance, far right ethno-nationalists in Ukraine

Have we discussed them yet?

[KUTradition]

and it’s odd, Ousie, that you seem to have forgotten about Crimea and putin flooding eastern Ukraine with its own weapons back in 2014

all of this now is just an extension of that conflict (as well as putin’s invasion of Georgia)

the international community largely did nothing after those provocations, and now look where we are

[KUTradition]

“Who is NATO militarizing and why?”

ummm

Take, for instance, far right ethno-nationalists in Ukraine

Have we discussed them yet?

jfc

i’m done

[ousdahl]

it's interesting how the ones accusing *me* of being all ignorant and unwilling to accept other world views, are also the ones running and hiding with these "I'm done" sentiments.

Kinda makes you wonder...

[ousdahl]

and it’s odd, Ousie, that you seem to have forgotten about Crimea and putin flooding eastern Ukraine with its own weapons back in 2014

all of this now is just an extension of that conflict (as well as putin’s invasion of Georgia)

the international community largely did nothing after those provocations, and now look where we are

Speaking of democracy, you realize the people of Crimea voted that they'd rather re-join Russia, right?

Or does democracy only count when someone besides the "bad guys" do it?

(apparently there was such a vote, but it, like all this shit, is the subject of dispute)

[ousdahl]

“As Japhy pointed out, there have been plenty of examples of indigenous communities working together to take care of each other and allocate resources equitably, for more effectively than any large-scale state-established attempted at such “communal” living.”

how long did those few examples last, and why don’t they exist currently?

maybe they don't exist currently cuz they were slaughtered by the imperialists?

[ousdahl]

i was curious (and wanted to do a good deed), so i did some searching to try and get a good idea of global media bias

multiple sites were in agreement on at least some of least biased news outlets globally

AP
Reuters
BBC
WSJ
NPR
Aljazeera
Christian Science Monitor
CBS
The Economist

*no mention of twitter followings

I've posted plenty of links from plenty of these sources, yet somehow it's still kooky.

[TDub]

it's interesting how the ones accusing *me* of being all ignorant and unwilling to accept other world views, are also the ones running and hiding with these "I'm done" sentiments.

Kinda makes you wonder...

It should certainly make YOU wonder.

[ousdahl]

well, did the NATO and USA do anything to materially improve the conditions in those countries?

Or just show up and be a bunch of militant assholes ourselves, then GTFO as hastily as we could while we just kinda tossed the reigns back over to the Taliban on the way out?

What about before NATO or the USA even existed? Familiar with the history of those places? Never ending wars as far back as the history books go.

that's quite a broad brush.

I'm not sure the USA and NATO is so exclusively to credit for peace historically

nor are they necessarily the best arbiters for world peace going forward.

I'm not entirely sure who is! But when we have an entire nation so collectively conditioned to just accept war as "HuMaN NaTuRe!" and a gummint mostly just concerned about the interests of capital, it just seems like we'd get only lip service, more so than any positive material change.

I mean for real who cares about world peace when we could care more about the economy, bro!