Let’s have a war!

[zsn]

is there evidence this is the work of Russian propagandists?

I'm not saying it's not! Just curious if there's more to it.

My first reaction was more along the lines of, man the anti-war peace movement in this country is so lame. It's pretty much just a couple doods fussing at a niche-popular lawmaker's photo op, and you guys getting annoyed with me.

Which is exactly why I think it’s not an organic effort. Don’t want to be a conspiracy theorist but like the Germans prior to Pearl Harbor, foreign powers have recognized that our biggest strength (Free Speech) is also our biggest weakness - easily exploited to sow discord and divide people.

[ousdahl]

Ah. Thanks.


Well, if it IS Russian propagandists, yikes! Perhaps they’re far more sophisticated than I thought. I don’t know much about Mint Press News but maybe it’s straight outta the Kremlin. That vid is one hell of a deep fake, if it is.

Or are they even that sophisticated? How much difference does this make? They crash a photo op with like 8 people there, and a couple of doods fuss about that pesky nuclear war thing. I kinda doubt it gets much media attention beyond maybe like 8 more folks fussing about it on Twitter.

What discord is sown? Who did they divide? Who did they even propagandize? They end up getting booed lol. And if Russians are influencing our lawmakers, yikes, but I kinda read the whole situation as not exactly persuading Warren and Pressley much, either.


…or…is it possible there just really are some activists who just really are that opposed to war? Not everyone fetishizes nuclear winter, you guys.

[jhawks99]

Actually, yes I have. I tried, at least.

Apparently, my suggestions were berated as Russian propaganda, and/or just ignored.

But since you genuinely don’t seem to recall, let’s start, if I may please, by allowing me to ask you the same:

If Putin called you up personally and said “I’ll knock off this whole invasion bullshit if you can get your guys to stop pouring weapons into Ukraine,” would you make that deal, 99?

I would automatically assume that he is lying. Again. I would need some very strong verification and milestones before I agreed to that.

[KUTradition]

hey Ousie, when did the US (and other NATO nations) start supplying Ukraine with arms?

also, why did such sales start in the first place?

[zsn]

Ah. Thanks.


Well, if it IS Russian propagandists, yikes! Perhaps they’re far more sophisticated than I thought. I don’t know much about Mint Press News but maybe it’s straight outta the Kremlin. That vid is one hell of a deep fake, if it is.

Or are they even that sophisticated? How much difference does this make? They crash a photo op with like 8 people there, and a couple of doods fuss about that pesky nuclear war thing. I kinda doubt it gets much media attention beyond maybe like 8 more folks fussing about it on Twitter.

What discord is sown? Who did they divide? Who did they even propagandize? They end up getting booed lol. And if Russians are influencing our lawmakers, yikes, but I kinda read the whole situation as not exactly persuading Warren and Pressley much, either.


…or…is it possible there just really are some activists who just really are that opposed to war? Not everyone fetishizes nuclear winter, you guys.

We’re talking about it, aren’t we? Similarly it probably gets air play on right wing crevices as “look how Warren and Presley got trolled!” thus amplifying the pro-Russian messaging. They just want to cause enough chaos. Remember that all it takes is for about a combined 5000 people in the right places to (not) show up to vote in order to alter the balance of power.

[ousdahl]

hey Ousie, when did the US (and other NATO nations) start supplying Ukraine with arms?

also, why did such sales start in the first place?

hmm...when did the US start supplying Ukraine with arms? I dunno exactly...I know we started with some kinda support beginning in at least 2014, when some kinda coup went down there, and guys like John McCain and Joe Biden were suddenly holding pep rallies there too, though to suggest the US had anything more to do with the coup is prob inappropriate. But at the time, Obama hesitated to provide actual arms to Ukraine, out of concern it would provoke Russia.

So when DID the US start supplying Ukraine with arms? And was it continuous? I think the arms supplying was in full force by no later than 2018, when at least a couple lawmakers tried to second guess the whole supplying arms to Ukraine thing, out of concern about the evidence to suggest it was a bunch of...um, Kanye West fans...getting those arms. Tho, not to worry, cuz we doubled down on supplying arms to Ukraine anyway. But, I dunno. So when DID the US start supplying Ukraine with arms, then?

and why did such sales start in the first place...I dunno, cuz freedom and democracy? Cuz it's good for Raytheon stock? Cuz we wanted to spite that pussy Obama? I dunno.

I'd be curious to see an actual objective timeline of specific events as it pertains to the whole conflict, but I'm not sure what it might suggest.

Where we going with this?

[KUTradition]

and why did such sales start in the first place...I dunno, cuz freedom and democracy? Cuz it's good for Raytheon stock? Cuz we wanted to spite that pussy Obama? I dunno.

do you even care to have a serious discussion?

as i said before, maybe do some actual reading on the subject rather than just what gets encapsulated in 280 characters

[ousdahl]

Ah. Thanks.


Well, if it IS Russian propagandists, yikes! Perhaps they’re far more sophisticated than I thought. I don’t know much about Mint Press News but maybe it’s straight outta the Kremlin. That vid is one hell of a deep fake, if it is.

Or are they even that sophisticated? How much difference does this make? They crash a photo op with like 8 people there, and a couple of doods fuss about that pesky nuclear war thing. I kinda doubt it gets much media attention beyond maybe like 8 more folks fussing about it on Twitter.

What discord is sown? Who did they divide? Who did they even propagandize? They end up getting booed lol. And if Russians are influencing our lawmakers, yikes, but I kinda read the whole situation as not exactly persuading Warren and Pressley much, either.


…or…is it possible there just really are some activists who just really are that opposed to war? Not everyone fetishizes nuclear winter, you guys.

We’re talking about it, aren’t we? Similarly it probably gets air play on right wing crevices as “look how Warren and Presley got trolled!” thus amplifying the pro-Russian messaging. They just want to cause enough chaos. Remember that all it takes is for about a combined 5000 people in the right places to (not) show up to vote in order to alter the balance of power.

yea, we're talking about it, I guess. like 8 people on twitter too.

But, DOES it probably get air play on right wing crevices? Have you seen it anywhere else? Besides a few fringe tweets, I haven't, at least. Like I said, I kinda doubt it gets much media attention.

[ousdahl]

and why did such sales start in the first place...I dunno, cuz freedom and democracy? Cuz it's good for Raytheon stock? Cuz we wanted to spite that pussy Obama? I dunno.

do you even care to have a serious discussion?

as i said before, maybe do some actual reading on the subject rather than just what gets encapsulated in 280 characters

yes I do care! let's have a serious discussion! May we please!

Could I ask you to kindly suggest some actual reading on the subject?

I know I spend time on twitter, and like I've said all along, I take it all with a grain of salt.

I've provided plenty of reading from plenty of respected journalistic sources too, but I'm afraid it's mostly gone unread.

[ousdahl]

speaking of the anti-war movement...

lulz?

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/25/11313470 ... draw-biden

Progressive Democrats withdraw letter calling for more diplomatic efforts with Russia

[KUTradition]

just more western propaganda

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/americ ... a-war/#app

[ousdahl]

seriously, Elvis?

[ousdahl]

nothing like an elected representative getting a round of applause from her constituents for shouting, "you do not get to tell me what my votes mean and how I get to vote in supporting people"

[ousdahl]

her tweet response:



her position back in March:

[KUTradition]

the situation on the ground is much different now than it was in march, regardless of whether or not those dem legislators buckled to pressure

[ousdahl]

what's different?

do we have more accountability for paramilitary groups?

do we have evidence to suggest "the consequences of flooding Ukraine with billion dollars in (U.S.) weapons" will be any less unpredictable, or less likely to be disastrous?

[KUTradition]

what's different?

seriously?

[KUTradition]

if you haven’t been paying enough attention to know what the difference on the ground is between now and last march, then why are you even still in this thread?

[ousdahl]

sorry dude, not trying to get under your skin.

I don't understand how my questions are irrelevant to a discussion about how the situation on the ground is much different, or irrelevant to Omar's changes in rhetoric then vs. now.

what's changed?

was the war any less ugly back in March?

[TDub]

how has it changed? But.....youre the expert on this particular war, you've deflected every discussion about it and tangled it to fit your preconceived/force fed notion about what's happening. So you must know.

So. what's different Q?