F the NCAA

[ousdahl]

Exactly.

Bet they sure wish they hadn't have pretended they were getting defrauded during an FBI trial. They shot themselves in the gut.

as opposed to…?

[Deleted User 863]

Also note, I'm not arguing against how you think college athletics should be.
I get the side of the argument where players should be paid.
I just completely disagree with it and won't have anything to do with it if it continues this course.

The bar will continue - and it might thrive - but to me, the bar won't be the same.
I'll just hang at the Shack instead.

Surprised you haven't been far more critical of Bill Self. He has taken part (directly and indirectly) in actions to make our program the opposite of what you desire.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Then the NCAA should do the same instead of trying to milk the system for every dollar they can.

An amateur basketball coach making 7 figures a year? Can't have it both ways.

Defund college sports and make it amateur. I am with that.

But i am not with the current arrangement and environment it creates. It has created an environment that incentivizes cheating. And we got caught doing just that.

No one is more fine with the current arrangement than the NCAA and its member schools.

Exactly.

Bet they sure wish they hadn't have pretended they were getting defrauded during an FBI trial. They shot themselves in the gut.

I think the schools played it pretty well as being the defrauded victim with them not trusting the NCAA to not retaliate. A couple of eggs were broken and some shoe guys and assistant coaches were sentenced to probation, but all was well. The schools are doing better in the public eye than the NCAA is.

The NCAA tried the same thing and it has now really backfired from a public perception standpoint. And, it also really pisses off your fans when the NCAA goes after the Louisvilles, Arizonas, LSU and Kansases of the world when everyone was part of the deal, NCAA included.

[Deleted User 863]

I am a bit surprised with TDub on this one. The market forces were really an "invisible hand full of cash" before all of this. All things being equal, KU will do well.

Yea, i mean i explained part of my reasoning being my attachment to KU nostalgia. Also, a major part is that I dislike pro sports, and I dont want my favorite sport to become an unwatchable monor league version of the sport.

With the Cal era, I just reconciled myself to bidding wars. I like Self coaching in a more balanced league.That said, if balance shifts to the Kentucky Colonels, then we all will be screaming.

I know this is a sin to admit, but Self and Cal are cut from the same cloth. Self's is way less slimy on the surface, but we've been involved in way too much to blame Cal or finger point.

[twocoach]

"I watch college basketball because I love the University of Kansas and it's basketball program and it reminds me of family."

Me too.
But if we're eventually paying players contracts, then you'll get more of the type of guy who is looking for the next dollar, rather than actually wanting to be a part of the family.
And i'm not interested in 18-24 year olds figuring out how to make the most money instead of doing what college athletics was originally intended -- a competitive environment where you grew to become an adult and played more for the love of the game.

And yes, I'll stick to the love of the game despite a lot of the cynicism for that here.

How many players on the 2008 ncaa champion KU team went on to play professional basketball of some sort? Eight? Did you not like that team? They still seem to be huge fans of the KU basketball program and behave as if they are part of the KU family despite moving on to be professional players. Many come back to Lawrence on a regular basis to either train, host charity events or even to live in the case of Sherron Collins. The vast majority of KU players who are currently playing professional basketball all over the world still actively rep KU on social media and in person. So based on all of the evidence I have to review, I see no reason to believe that your assumption that allowing players to get some money for NIL will lead to "more of the type of guy who is looking for the next dollar, rather than actually wanting to be a part of the family" is accurate.

[twocoach]

Yea, i mean i explained part of my reasoning being my attachment to KU nostalgia. Also, a major part is that I dislike pro sports, and I dont want my favorite sport to become an unwatchable monor league version of the sport.

With the Cal era, I just reconciled myself to bidding wars. I like Self coaching in a more balanced league.That said, if balance shifts to the Kentucky Colonels, then we all will be screaming.

I know this is a sin to admit, but Self and Cal are cut from the same cloth. Self's is way less slimy on the surface, but we've been involved in way too much to blame Cal or finger point.

You've beaten this horse to death here several times. You really want to revive it so you can beat it to death again?

[ousdahl]

Dunno if Sherron came back, or just never left the food court at the Underground.

[twocoach]

I am a bit surprised with TDub on this one. The market forces were really an "invisible hand full of cash" before all of this. All things being equal, KU will do well.

Yea, i mean i explained part of my reasoning being my attachment to KU nostalgia. Also, a major part is that I dislike pro sports, and I dont want my favorite sport to become an unwatchable monor league version of the sport.

With the Cal era, I just reconciled myself to bidding wars. I like Self coaching in a more balanced league.That said, if balance shifts to the Kentucky Colonels, then we all will be screaming.

If? The Nike schools are already getting far more from he current system than the non-Nike schools. It is not balanced at all right now. Allowing multiple streams of income in my opinion helps to level that out.

[Deleted User 863]

Yea, i mean i explained part of my reasoning being my attachment to KU nostalgia. Also, a major part is that I dislike pro sports, and I dont want my favorite sport to become an unwatchable monor league version of the sport.

With the Cal era, I just reconciled myself to bidding wars. I like Self coaching in a more balanced league.That said, if balance shifts to the Kentucky Colonels, then we all will be screaming.

If? The Nike schools are already getting far more from he current system than the non-Nike schools. It is not balanced at all right now. Allowing multiple streams of income in my opinion helps to level that out.

Nike is bigger and has more money than Adidas and Underarmor right? Seems like it might all be relative. More nike schools so more nike recruits.

[PhDhawk]

I think the media and now the SC have done a pretty good job of recognizing the ways in which college athletics are similar to a business, specifically pro sports.

But they've done a piss poor job, or completely ignored, all the relevant ways in which it is different. And that's the problem here.

This is and always has been a conversation that focused on two men's sports at (generously) 50 or so Universities. And largely ignored the majority of college sports, all female sports, at the majority or institutions.

So much of the converstaion comes down to perspective. We live in a world where due to costs, many people who want to go to college can't, or choose to go into crippling long-term debt to do so. Athletic scholarships offer a chance to many to go to college, usually debt free. Athletic scholarships are, in almost all cases, the absolute best scholarships available. They're almost always significantly better than academic ones.

No one bats an eye at the backup left fielder on the loosing women's softball team getting a ful-ride, but then we're mad that the player on the basketball team isn't getting enough.

[CrimsonNBlue]

NIL helps the non-revenue athletes, too. There are many female student athletes that should be able to profit off of their large social media following (even though that can be icky, they should still be able to get compensated for it).

[PhDhawk]

I thought it was funny that in one of the opinion's they mentioned that restaurant owners can't come together to set salaries of staff low.

That's a pretty shitty argument in a world where we basically have a mechanism in place to make sure that, at least wait staff ARE artificially underpaid. The federal minimum wage for wait staff is $2.13 and we have a culture that has accepted that their salaries come from tips. It's funny that a justice would specifically use food service as an example when that's the case. And honestly, it's a much bigger, more wide-spread problem.

Similarly, this all hinges on the NCAA not legally being able to restrict a student from making money, sorry, but that's bullshit. Hell, a supreme court justice ought to know that the American Bar Association limits the employment of law students. And...if we're going to pretend it's a job...well, jobs limit your earning from other places as well. All the time. My wife has to get approval to have a side job, and in most cases, those get denied. I have to report any outside sources of income, I'm not sure if they can deny approval, but there is some level of regulation.

The SC decisions didn't seem to just say that the NCAA went too far in it's restrictions. It seems like they're saying they can't restrict at all...which I'm sorry, is bullshit. And, they hinted at the fact that they'd rule in that manner on any subsequent cases. This seems like an extreme over-correction to me.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Also, the backup left fielder is certainly not getting a full ride.

[PhDhawk]

Also, the backup left fielder is certainly not getting a full ride.

They are at my school. Backup soccer players where getting full scholarships. Track athletes get full scholarships regardless of how well they do in events with tens of spectators watching.

[PhDhawk]

NIL helps the non-revenue athletes, too. There are many female student athletes that should be able to profit off of their large social media following (even though that can be icky, they should still be able to get compensated for it).

My concern isn't students making other sources of income. (Particularly in ways unrelated to their sport, I think the Greg Anthony type of examples make the NCAA look extremely dumb). I have a problem with the notion that it shouldn't or can't be restricted. I think, at the very least, that the universities should not be involved in setting up deals for players...and they will immediately.

I've said it before, but I think all you have to do is restrict endorsement deals to Sophomores and above and you avoid most of the problems that would come with using it as a recruiting tool, but no one seemed to agree with me.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Also, the backup left fielder is certainly not getting a full ride.

They are at my school. Backup soccer players where getting full scholarships. Track athletes get full scholarships regardless of how well they do in events with tens of spectators watching.

Definitely not the norm if true and could be a football thing.

Makes me angry to think the wealthy schools are even more stingy with scholarships than the smaller schools. They'll cite Title IX, but that's horseshit.

[pdub]

If you did something like that, upperclassmen could make x amount a year from endorsements, with major consequences if it was connected to the athletic department, that would be more reasonable.

i.e. one and dones who have no interest in school can look elsewhere because college athletics isn't where they should be.

[ousdahl]

NIL helps the non-revenue athletes, too. There are many female student athletes that should be able to profit off of their large social media following (even though that can be icky, they should still be able to get compensated for it).

Only Fans!

[PhDhawk]

All this stuff also hinges on ignoring that college sports are great because of the colleges. It's different than the pros. There's a connection. You root for your alma mater. It's a cliche, but college is about the name on the front of the jersey, not on the back. I'm sorry, but the driving force behind the popularity of college sports is the colleges themselves and not the players or quality of play directly.

Also, there is a weird infrastructure for getting money that makes this all very different as well. If the Lakers want to sign Zion when he becomes a FA, they have to work within the confines of a collectively bargained salary cap (which is a huge restriction on player earnings btw). But they can't go ask a booster to "donate" money to help get him here. This is in place in colleges. As long as money is donated by boosters as charity, I think there's a real issue that needs to be addressed long before schools should even think about paying players.

[TDub]

NIL helps the non-revenue athletes, too. There are many female student athletes that should be able to profit off of their large social media following (even though that can be icky, they should still be able to get compensated for it).

I've said it before, but I think all you have to do is restrict endorsement deals to Sophomores and above and you avoid most of the problems that would come with using it as a recruiting tool, but no one seemed to agree with me.

Maybe the most reasonable solution in this thread.