F the NCAA

[pdub]

Yea I guess would you rather:

A. Bill Self and Townsend are suspended all season but no further punishments
B. 15 games stripped, Final Four banner taken down, conference streak set to 13

I'm slightly leaning A but it's close.

[ousdahl]

I kinda wonder if the Big 12 streak might endure, but with an asterisk.

so when people talk about sports records they'll at least mention, "well Kansas DID have it, until that NCAA shenanigans," kinda like how folks will talk about how UCLA has the most titles and how Wooden was a great coach even tho everyone knows he was just bankrolling all that shit.

I kinda wonder if there's some way KU could still do some kinda back door nod to the accomplishments in 18...like, just leave a gap on the banners where the conference championship and FF banners, so as to indicate something's there, even tho it's not. Or like have some janitor's closet in AFH somewhere that happens to have some blue cloths hanging amongst the brooms and mops.

but yea, BWW Chad def drinks Bud Light. And his interest in things like whether KU cheated will fade by the time he gets halfway thru that pitcher.

[ousdahl]

and generally, I think the NCAA's public perception has been taking enough hits lately that news of coming down on a school for shit that happened 6 years ago might make the NCAA look even dumber than the school.

[pdub]

If I were a KU student, i'd start a group called Final Four 18 or something, and print up a big sign/banner with Final Four 2018 that looks like the one in the rafters, and hold that up for games.

[ousdahl]

that's pretty good.

I keep thinking about the legacy of Silvio.

On one hand, he was quite a headache - the NCAA drama, the chair drama, the bar fight drama. In a sense he/his handlers can be blamed, I guess, for us loosing some banners.

but on the other hand, we prob wouldn't have earned those banners without him - particularly that conference tourney championship and that final four. I don't think we coulda got past the elite 8 playing underclassman Make-A-Wish Mitch against Dook's NBA farm team frontcourt that year.

[pdub]

Kadarius Toney of the Jayhawks?

[ousdahl]

another angle yet:

I think if he HAD been eligible in '19, the streak very well may have kept going.

[ousdahl]

and I hope KU might be able to spin this to drag the NCAA thru the mud as much as we can.

"We took their word for it when they declared this guy a Certified Amateur, twice, and look how that worked out for us!"

[jfish26]

Yea I guess would you rather:

A. Bill Self and Townsend are suspended all season but no further punishments
B. 15 games stripped, Final Four banner taken down, conference streak set to 13

I'm slightly leaning A but it's close.

I'd pick A, no question.

Even in great years (which this figures to be), a Final Four appearance is something like a 50/50 shot. A title is, then, something like a 6.25% shot. I'd gladly give up that lottery ticket to keep the wins, keep the banner, keep the real Big 12 streak length,* and keep the tournament streak going.

* Not directly related, but just macabre shits and giggles I guess - in Bill's 20 years, there have been (checks math) 80 Final Four teams. Out of those 80, how many would you guess, if you had perfect visibility into everything, had at least one player who "got" more (or did "worse") than Silvio? I think it's at least half.

[hartjack8]

KU got off easy for what happened when it happened. KU knows that, hence the talking out of both sides of the mouth.

And the well other kids did this so they should be punished too is typical homer shit I’d expect to read here (or any fan board).

All in all, as KU fans, we should be breathing a sigh of relief nothing actually substantial was brought down.

Also: won’t catching UK be fun again?

[pdub]

Yea I guess would you rather:

A. Bill Self and Townsend are suspended all season but no further punishments
B. 15 games stripped, Final Four banner taken down, conference streak set to 13

I'm slightly leaning A but it's close.

I'd pick A, no question.

Even in great years (which this figures to be), a Final Four appearance is something like a 50/50 shot. A title is, then, something like a 6.25% shot. I'd gladly give up that lottery ticket to keep the wins, keep the banner, keep the real Big 12 streak length,* and keep the tournament streak going.

* Not directly related, but just macabre shits and giggles I guess - in Bill's 20 years, there have been (checks math) 80 Final Four teams. Out of those 80, how many would you guess, if you had perfect visibility into everything, had at least one player who "got" more (or did "worse") than Silvio? I think it's at least half.

The reason it's on the fence for me is because the NCAA is such a shit show that a. as a Kansas fan who knows whats really up I can eye roll this away and know that we deserved those wins and the Final Four ( like, I'm comfortable going full randy here and just creating my own reality and denying anyone else's ) and b. in five/ten years from now does the NCAA loose enough power to where we put it back up anyways and/or they retroactively allow those games back?

[jfish26]

Yea I guess would you rather:

A. Bill Self and Townsend are suspended all season but no further punishments
B. 15 games stripped, Final Four banner taken down, conference streak set to 13

I'm slightly leaning A but it's close.

I'd pick A, no question.

Even in great years (which this figures to be), a Final Four appearance is something like a 50/50 shot. A title is, then, something like a 6.25% shot. I'd gladly give up that lottery ticket to keep the wins, keep the banner, keep the real Big 12 streak length,* and keep the tournament streak going.

* Not directly related, but just macabre shits and giggles I guess - in Bill's 20 years, there have been (checks math) 80 Final Four teams. Out of those 80, how many would you guess, if you had perfect visibility into everything, had at least one player who "got" more (or did "worse") than Silvio? I think it's at least half.

The reason it's on the fence for me is because the NCAA is such a shit show that a. as a Kansas fan who knows whats really up I can eye roll this away and know that we deserved those wins and the Final Four ( like, I'm comfortable going full randy here and just creating my own reality and denying anyone else's ) and b. in five/ten years from now does the NCAA loose enough power to where we put it back up anyways and/or they retroactively allow those games back?

At this point, being petty over banners etc (which, to be clear, would be HIGHLY satisfying) just prolongs the issue, when what we need more than anything else is to move on; if Bill adds 3-5 Final Fours and 1-2 titles over his next (last) ten years, we'll (1) be comfortably ahead of UK in wins and (2) think of the "lost" 17-18 stuff as a footnote.

[hartjack8]

Umm Ku got off easy?? This was the shoe companies corrupting college basketball. This is why NIL is not a bad thing. This was going on and was the shoe companies not the Universities. Nike was the major player. You must have missed the part where that crazy lawyer got the goods on Nike and tried to blackmail them and got fried in Federal court and is in jail.

But you so right about the catching Kentucky again.

1. Kentucky: 2,377 wins
2. Kansas: 2,370 wins
3. North Carolina: 2,343 wins
4. Duke: 2,273 wins
5. UCLA: 1,986 wins

It was cool three years ago. We could take it back this year. LOL

[twocoach]

Yea I guess would you rather:

A. Bill Self and Townsend are suspended all season but no further punishments
B. 15 games stripped, Final Four banner taken down, conference streak set to 13

I'm slightly leaning A but it's close.

I choose B all day. KU has a great team this year and a legit shot at another national title. I love Norm Roberts but he isn't guiding this squad to that. The wins in the scheme of things are irrelevant. The banner is just a thing in the rafters. The players know it happened and so do the fans. Same with the conference streak. I don't care if the organization that will be gone down the line does "recognize it". Them recognizing or not recognizing it means nothing.

[MICHHAWK]

sds legacy for me. he is on the short list for biggest mistakes the athletic department has ever made.

[twocoach]

sds legacy for me. he is on the short list for biggest mistakes the athletic department has ever made.

He is definitely on the chucklehead list for sure. You have to be a major pain in the ass to help a team get to a Final Four and still be deemed "not worth the hassle".

[MICHHAWK]

i would love to know how much that kid co$t the university.

[pdub]

Probably like 30 Hunter Mickelsons.

[Sparko]

Probably like 30 Hunter Mickelsons.

That's half a Chenowith

[pdub]

Probably about how much he spent on Dave Mathews concerts during his career at KU.