F the NCAA

[TDub]

Part of me wonders if this isn't at least partly so the schools/ncaa can take back some control over the money to ensure they're getting "their fair share" of these NIL dollars that they currently get none of. I'll be curious to see what the stipulations are that they impose when they start paying the players directly.

no, it wasn't the choice of the schools it was a lost court battle

In a narrow sense, yes this was an emergency settlement that the NCAA agreed to to stop the bleeding.

But in a broader sense, yes absolutely it was a choice to fight the tide until it washed over them.

There were decades of opportunity - with full knowledge that the tide was coming in - to manage this to a softer landing that did not result in this degree of carnage.

I won't rehash everything for the sake of everybody....but...

there were decades of free tuition training, nutrition programs, and opportunities provided by those same schools to athletes. Far and away beyond those provided to normal students.

[jfish26]

no, it wasn't the choice of the schools it was a lost court battle

In a narrow sense, yes this was an emergency settlement that the NCAA agreed to to stop the bleeding.

But in a broader sense, yes absolutely it was a choice to fight the tide until it washed over them.

There were decades of opportunity - with full knowledge that the tide was coming in - to manage this to a softer landing that did not result in this degree of carnage.

I won't rehash everything for the sake of everybody....but...

there were decades of free tuition training, nutrition programs, and opportunities provided by those same schools to athletes. Far and away beyond those provided to normal students.

Agreed, of course.

[MICHHAWK]

the KUAD said the other day that they pretty much break even every year. give or take.

so. how they are going to pay the children is a problem. at least they said it was a problem.

it's somebody's problem. not mine. but somebody's.






sponsors on the jerseys. naming rights to AFH and memorial. cut all the other sports. get rid of the student sections. to name a few.

[Back2Lawrence]

Well, fine, but the things that they're talking about happened before he was at KU, so: he's already played. The well is as poisoned as it's ever going to be.

There's a school of thought that says things have changed now and we might consider holding him out as a precaution. To which I say: I'm not getting burned by that one again, nope. Not after possibly losing a national championship over it last year.

this is the same thing as using historical events/usages (words, attitudes, etc) against someone in today's environment. I don't think that's fair at all. Many of us, myself included, once used words that are now no where near my vernacular. I drove drunk A LOT in Lawrence and Denver. I'd not think to do that today, given all the options not to do so.

And to your final point. I think you still hold him out, if you think it's the right thing to do and in a sensible world it would matter. The win at any cost/cut them if they aren't good enough mentality. Also gross. But whatever. I'm old.

[Back2Lawrence]

Right in the ear. Amateurism is dumb; abolish it. Get the players their fucking money.

here it comes. ready or not.

[TDub]

Right in the ear. Amateurism is dumb; abolish it. Get the players their fucking money.

here it comes. ready or not.

not

[jfish26]

the KUAD said the other day that they pretty much break even every year. give or take.

so. how they are going to pay the children is a problem. at least they said it was a problem.

it's somebody's problem. not mine. but somebody's.






sponsors on the jerseys. naming rights to AFH and memorial. cut all the other sports. get rid of the student sections. to name a few.

I think you correctly identify that you need to come at this from both the revenue and expense sides.

On the expense side, I think you're leaving out the MOST obvious place for reduction, which is in coach and administrator salaries.

Let's say that KU's player budget is $40mm - double the $20mm in revenue share contemplated in the settlement.

It is hilariously out of whack with other sports for (for example) Self and Leipold to get paid more than 1/3 of the amount paid to all of the players combined.

Peter Vermes gets $750k to coach a roster costing about $16mm.

Andy Reid gets $20mm to coach a roster costing about $250mm.

I can't find the Royals' manager's salary, but the Twins' manager gets $2.25mm to coach a roster costing about $187mm.

The Nuggets' Mike Malone gets something like $10mm to coach a roster costing about $177mm.

I'm aware that these are imperfect - not close to perfect - comparisons. But I think they're at least instructive as to scope.

[MICHHAWK]

just cut all sports not named football and mens basketball. and call it a day.

[jfish26]

just cut all sports not named football and mens basketball. and call it a day.

I don't like it, but yes, there will have to be cuts to, or a different way to fund, non-revenue sports.

Country club sport families were certainly beneficiaries of the old system, and this is another example of something that's going to be a LOT messier and bloodier to solve because the NCAA fought the tide (for so long) instead of riding the wave.

[Back2Lawrence]

Lacrosse will be one of the most interesting ones to watch, IMO. It's so regionally significant, but has been growing in popularity for over a decade.

Title IX is also going to be a factor in what stays and what goes. And pay equity in general. Another word (equity) that has been redefined and misused in recent times.

True equity in pay would be complex within the college sports model. But, pay equity=equality for all intent and purpose today. Really, though, like Mich said and we all know...for the most part...Men's Football (by far the most) and men's basketball (pretty good at most p4/5/whatever schools at least) fuel the beast that is the modern athletic department.

[Back2Lawrence]

Country club sport families were certainly beneficiaries of the old system, and this is another example of something that's going to be a LOT messier and bloodier to solve because the NCAA fought the tide (for so long) instead of riding the wave.

I know you didn't intend it this way, but this is too simple of a statement. I mean, much like country club families, the members of the NCAA, whether it be NCAA execs or ADs and Coaches at the institutional level, are going to go down swinging to keep as much influence as possible over how funds are distributed. I mean, are the likes of Self and Leipold going to take a pay cut now that their profession isn't paid in a vacuum as it once was? Generally, CEO's and their ilk find a way to continually fuck those lower in the serfdom. Maybe we can get self-coaching teams in the future. I mean, the athletes are only at schools for a year anyway in many (getting to be most???) cases now anyway. How much influence are these humans with their bloated salaries actually teaching our aspiring pros?

Which, for the record, fuck off. If college had an overall success rate of job placement like the athletic side has, we would have shuddered higher education for all but a few mega elite as it stands.

[MICHHAWK]

i would for sure eliminate the academics out of the equation. no more scholarships for the paid athletes.

if we are paying a kid a hundred thousand dollars per year. he can pay for his own school if he wants school.

i haven't decided yet if i would cut room and board also.

[TDub]

that's professional sports. as we have all said this would lead. it's so great.

[MICHHAWK]

if we are shelling out 20 mil to the kids, why would we continue to pay for stuff like tuition and room and board.

might as well get rid of the 5 years to play 4 while we're at it.

[pdub]

I don't think title IX will be an issue eventually as either the NCAA will work with football/basketball to somehow become it's own separate entity or the NCAA won't be a thing really as 60ish "schools" disband and create their own league.

[pdub]

Just start here and follow my convo with PhD that was slightly made in jest.
It's now coming true:

viewtopic.php?p=115728#p115728

[jfish26]

Country club sport families were certainly beneficiaries of the old system, and this is another example of something that's going to be a LOT messier and bloodier to solve because the NCAA fought the tide (for so long) instead of riding the wave.

I know you didn't intend it this way, but this is too simple of a statement. I mean, much like country club families, the members of the NCAA, whether it be NCAA execs or ADs and Coaches at the institutional level, are going to go down swinging to keep as much influence as possible over how funds are distributed. I mean, are the likes of Self and Leipold going to take a pay cut now that their profession isn't paid in a vacuum as it once was? Generally, CEO's and their ilk find a way to continually fuck those lower in the serfdom. Maybe we can get self-coaching teams in the future. I mean, the athletes are only at schools for a year anyway in many (getting to be most???) cases now anyway. How much influence are these humans with their bloated salaries actually teaching our aspiring pros?

Which, for the record, fuck off. If college had an overall success rate of job placement like the athletic side has, we would have shuddered higher education for all but a few mega elite as it stands.

I think what you are describing is a massive problem to sort - those from whom the cuts should equitably come are the ones with the resources and institutional advantages to resist them.

And I would guess this is part of why the refusal of the NCAA (meaning, administrators and coaches) to plan for this world was at least as strategic as it was idiotic.

I think we have plenty and plenty and plenty of current events examples of the people who will survive shakeup letting things break and then being well-positioned to capitalize on the fix (or, simply, the brokenness).

I am trying to say this very lightly, because I think we all share interests here more than perhaps we acknowledge. All of this is why I felt so strongly that the most equitable results here - to say nothing of the best results for the sport - were going to come from a controlled descent, a soft landing, into whatever the new world is.

Not the schizophrenic cataclysm we're in the midst of.

[Back2Lawrence]

Tread lightly or not, (men’s) basketball and football are going to be untouched, probably, and honestly, despite watching several other sports this year for KU both in person and on a live video source….if the others went away, I wouldn’t really care. And I hardly care about these two currently.

[Back2Lawrence]

I’ll be more clear….the old white dudes (mostly) that are making millions aren’t going to give it up or go down without a fight. Overtly so or through more subtle methods.

[Arjhawk]

the KUAD said the other day that they pretty much break even every year. give or take.

so. how they are going to pay the children is a problem. at least they said it was a problem.

it's somebody's problem. not mine. but somebody's.






sponsors on the jerseys. naming rights to AFH and memorial. cut all the other sports. get rid of the student sections. to name a few.

This is disingenuous though. They break even as accounting tricks so they are a non-profit. There is likely a LOT of fluff on the expense side.