My challenge to the dedicated "Right"

[Deleted User 62]

Please...tell me what was the single.....absolutely worst thing about the 8 years of Obama that makes these last 2 years seem like a vast improvement.

I am listening with an open mind.

[DCHawk1]

There are more than 2,500 references to the secretary of HHS in the health care law (in most cases she’s simply mentioned as “the Secretary”). A further breakdown finds that there are more than 700 instances in which the Secretary is instructed that she “shall” do something, and more than 200 cases in which she “may” take some form of regulatory action if she chooses. On 139 occasions, the law mentions decisions that the “Secretary determines.” At times, the frequency of these mentions reaches comic heights. For instance, one section of the law reads: “Each person to whom the Secretary provided information under subsection (d) shall report to the Secretary in such manner as the Secretary determines appropriate.”

https://spectator.org/39516_empress-obamacare/



This doesn't make Trump an improvement, but it's suggestive of why the American people resent our chickenshit federal officials (elected and appointed).

[zsn]

https://spectator.org/39516_empress-obamacare/

This doesn't make Trump an improvement, but it's suggestive of why the American people resent our chickenshit federal officials (elected and appointed).

Translation: "Obamacare...........Death Panels.........Tyranny..........ummm, I got nothing"

[twocoach]

There are more than 2,500 references to the secretary of HHS in the health care law (in most cases she’s simply mentioned as “the Secretary”). A further breakdown finds that there are more than 700 instances in which the Secretary is instructed that she “shall” do something, and more than 200 cases in which she “may” take some form of regulatory action if she chooses. On 139 occasions, the law mentions decisions that the “Secretary determines.” At times, the frequency of these mentions reaches comic heights. For instance, one section of the law reads: “Each person to whom the Secretary provided information under subsection (d) shall report to the Secretary in such manner as the Secretary determines appropriate.”

https://spectator.org/39516_empress-obamacare/



This doesn't make Trump an improvement, but it's suggestive of why the American people resent our chickenshit federal officials (elected and appointed).

So, the big problem with Obama is that there is too much pointless legislation in ObamaCare, which he didn't actually write?

We all agree there is problems with the original model of ObamaCare. I would assume that Obama even agreed with that. So fix them. Rebuild them. Whatever. Republicans had more than 6 years to gather the brightest minds and build a better model and they did nothing.

[DCHawk1]

https://spectator.org/39516_empress-obamacare/

This doesn't make Trump an improvement, but it's suggestive of why the American people resent our chickenshit federal officials (elected and appointed).

Translation: "Obamacare...........Death Panels.........Tyranny..........ummm, I got nothing"

Dum.

[DCHawk1]

There are more than 2,500 references to the secretary of HHS in the health care law (in most cases she’s simply mentioned as “the Secretary”). A further breakdown finds that there are more than 700 instances in which the Secretary is instructed that she “shall” do something, and more than 200 cases in which she “may” take some form of regulatory action if she chooses. On 139 occasions, the law mentions decisions that the “Secretary determines.” At times, the frequency of these mentions reaches comic heights. For instance, one section of the law reads: “Each person to whom the Secretary provided information under subsection (d) shall report to the Secretary in such manner as the Secretary determines appropriate.”

https://spectator.org/39516_empress-obamacare/



This doesn't make Trump an improvement, but it's suggestive of why the American people resent our chickenshit federal officials (elected and appointed).

So, the big problem with Obama is that there is too much pointless legislation in ObamaCare, which he didn't actually write?

umm...no.

In fact, "legislation" has nothing to do with this. And nor is it pointless. This is PRECISELY the problem with our government. And while it was exaggerated under Obama, it preceded him by many years and continues today. Which is why Trump will pay no price politically for attacking Paul Ryan and the GOP Congress.

[HouseDivided]

Obamacare would be number one with "You didn't build that" as a close number two. The whole idea that government is the answer to our problems and that the common people have no right/ability to control their own destiny is offensive to me.

[Deleted User 89]

https://spectator.org/39516_empress-obamacare/

This doesn't make Trump an improvement, but it's suggestive of why the American people resent our chickenshit federal officials (elected and appointed).

Translation: "Obamacare...........Death Panels.........Tyranny..........ummm, I got nothing"

Dum.

what’s dumb is the dozens of times there was a pointless vote to try and overturn the ACA...and i’m always reminded of the professed primary goal of gop leaders, to fight Obama’s policies because they were his, not because they were bad policies

[Deleted User 89]

Obamacare would be number one with "You didn't build that" as a close number two. The whole idea that government is the answer to our problems and that the common people have no right/ability to control their own destiny is offensive to me.

what’s offensive to me is that one of, if not the wealthiest nation on the planet doesn’t have the compassion or empathy to take care of their own...and this extends beyond basic healthcare to things like support for the impoverished and taking care of our veterans

[twocoach]

There are more than 2,500 references to the secretary of HHS in the health care law (in most cases she’s simply mentioned as “the Secretary”). A further breakdown finds that there are more than 700 instances in which the Secretary is instructed that she “shall” do something, and more than 200 cases in which she “may” take some form of regulatory action if she chooses. On 139 occasions, the law mentions decisions that the “Secretary determines.” At times, the frequency of these mentions reaches comic heights. For instance, one section of the law reads: “Each person to whom the Secretary provided information under subsection (d) shall report to the Secretary in such manner as the Secretary determines appropriate.”

https://spectator.org/39516_empress-obamacare/



This doesn't make Trump an improvement, but it's suggestive of why the American people resent our chickenshit federal officials (elected and appointed).

So, the big problem with Obama is that there is too much pointless legislation in ObamaCare, which he didn't actually write?

umm...no.

In fact, "legislation" has nothing to do with this. And nor is it pointless. This is PRECISELY the problem with our government. And while it was exaggerated under Obama, it preceded him by many years and continues today. Which is why Trump will pay no price politically for attacking Paul Ryan and the GOP Congress.

That's a lot of words to basically say "people just don't like to be told by The Man what to do". Which I agree with.

The problem I have is all the mental gymnastics people do to make it seem less petty than just being childish and not liking to be told they can't do whatever they want. When people want others to STOP doing things they personally don't like then suddenly they are huge supporters of Big Government.

[twocoach]

Obamacare would be number one with "You didn't build that" as a close number two. The whole idea that government is the answer to our problems and that the common people have no right/ability to control their own destiny is offensive to me.

what’s offensive to me is that one of, if not the wealthiest nation on the planet doesn’t have the compassion or empathy to take care of their own...and this extends beyond basic healthcare to things like support for the impoverished and taking care of our veterans

I am discovering that some people simply are more concerned for their own well being more than they are the well being of others and simply dont care if someone else is negatively impacted by their advancement. Others are wired to have more empathy and are willing to sacrifice a bit of their own to help someone with much less.

Person A isn't bad. They just have a different combinarion of mental wiring, chemical makeup and life experiences. If empathy was scored from 0-100 you have to have people spread across that full range to succeed. You cant just have a society with everyone at 100 any more than a society full of zeroes.

It's the battling over the money that the 100s want that the zeros aren't willing to share that causes the friction. Healthcare, welfare, social programs. It's all basically the same argument.

The Right that likes their life wants to spend their money to safeguard that life and keep the stuff they have. The Left that likes their life wants to give more people a chance to experience that happiness.

[DCHawk1]

So, the big problem with Obama is that there is too much pointless legislation in ObamaCare, which he didn't actually write?

umm...no.

In fact, "legislation" has nothing to do with this. And nor is it pointless. This is PRECISELY the problem with our government. And while it was exaggerated under Obama, it preceded him by many years and continues today. Which is why Trump will pay no price politically for attacking Paul Ryan and the GOP Congress.

That's a lot of words to basically say "people just don't like to be told by The Man who was not elected, is not accountable in any way to voters, and whose power has increased exponentially over the last few decades what to do". Which I agree with.

FYP

[MICHHAWK]

The United States of America is pretty gosh darn generous. We spend a lot of money to help a lot people. We spend more money and help more people than any other country on earth.

Nice try though.

[HouseDivided]

The Right that likes their life wants to spend their money to safeguard that life and keep the stuff they have. The Left that likes their life wants to give more people a chance to experience that happiness.

I call B.S. The Left wants to give more people a chance provided that someone else pays for it and they are not negatively impacted by that change. They are no different from the Right, other than they are not willing to admit that not everyone can have the kind of life they want.

[twocoach]

Obamacare would be number one with "You didn't build that" as a close number two. The whole idea that government is the answer to our problems and that the common people have no right/ability to control their own destiny is offensive to me.

We dont think that government is "the answer to our problems". We dont think that common people dont have the "right/ability to control their own destiny. You're offended by something that isn't the case. Again, creating a fake problem and then being offended by that problem.

Healthcare sucks. Insurance in general sucks. It's basically a giant industry designed to slowly screw people out of their money over time because they are scared of being wiped out all at once.

My wife and I used to both be self employed, so we had to pay for our own health insurance. After our 1st child was born via c-section, the monthly payments for our $5,000 per person deductible plan were raised to more than our monthly mortgage payment. You know, "just in case".

I did the math and cancelled our plan. We put that amount of money in a separate account every month and in less than a year had enough to pay cash for another c-section if we needed to. Then I went to school, got a degree and a job with benefits that included some help with the cost of health insurance.

Unfortunately, the health care industry is also out to make profits and is now accustomed to ripping off insurance companies, who respond by recouping those losses from us.

I would personally rather see our government spend time and money dealing with the massive amount of fraud and corruption in the health care industry than feeding the corrupt machine but no politician is going to bite that hand. It and the similarly corrupt pharmaceutical industry pays nearly as well as the NRA.

[twocoach]

The Right that likes their life wants to spend their money to safeguard that life and keep the stuff they have. The Left that likes their life wants to give more people a chance to experience that happiness.

I call B.S. The Left wants to give more people a chance provided that someone else pays for it and they are not negatively impacted by that change. They are no different from the Right, other than they are not willing to admit that not everyone can have the kind of life they want.

Because we view money differently, you have a hard time believing that I feel how I feel about it. That's understandable.

To me; money comes and money goes. Sometimes you have more than you need and other times things are tight. I have worked hard, pursued a college degree that would get me into an industry that is stable long term and now my family and I make enough that our life plans are properly funded. It wasn't good fortune. It was hard work and paying attention. Life is good for me right now and I like it when other people's lives are good, too.

I don't mind at all some of the money I have going to help others have a better shot at what I have right now. Desperation comes when people don't have enough money to pay for their lives and that desperation affects society at large. I have had times in my life where I was desperate. It was a scary existence. If some of my money helps reduce that for someone else then that makes me even happier.

[HouseDivided]

Obamacare would be number one with "You didn't build that" as a close number two. The whole idea that government is the answer to our problems and that the common people have no right/ability to control their own destiny is offensive to me.

We dont think that government is "the answer to our problems". We dont think that common people dont have the "right/ability to control their own destiny. You're offended by something that isn't the case. Again, creating a fake problem and then being offended by that problem.

Healthcare sucks. Insurance in general sucks. It's basically a giant industry designed to slowly screw people out of their money over time because they are scared of being wiped out all at once.

My wife and I used to both be self employed, so we had to pay for our own health insurance. After our 1st child was born via c-section, the monthly payments for our $5,000 per person deductible plan were raised to more than our monthly mortgage payment. You know, "just in case".

I did the math and cancelled our plan. We put that amount of money in a separate account every month and in less than a year had enough to pay cash for another c-section if we needed to. Then I went to school, got a degree and a job with benefits that included some help with the cost of health insurance.

Unfortunately, the health care industry is also out to make profits and is now accustomed to ripping off insurance companies, who respond by recouping those losses from us.

I would personally rather see our government spend time and money dealing with the massive amount of fraud and corruption in the health care industry than feeding the corrupt machine but no politician is going to bite that hand. It and the similarly corrupt pharmaceutical industry pays nearly as well as the NRA.

You don't see the attitude because you are right in the middle of it. Every Lefty I have ever talked to sees a morass of mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging homunculi "out there" who somehow managed to get Trump into office. They think they are smarter, better, and more deserving of good things than them. It's societally-condoned prejudice.

Health insurance is a scam, and, predictably, it has caused healthcare to follow suit. The answer is not to hand it over to the government, which, as we have seen with Obamacare, just makes it worse. The answer is to take away third-party payment altogether. The market will have to adjust, the same way it did in the days before health insurance. It will be painful initially, but it will work. It is the only reasonable solution.

[HouseDivided]

The Right that likes their life wants to spend their money to safeguard that life and keep the stuff they have. The Left that likes their life wants to give more people a chance to experience that happiness.

I call B.S. The Left wants to give more people a chance provided that someone else pays for it and they are not negatively impacted by that change. They are no different from the Right, other than they are not willing to admit that not everyone can have the kind of life they want.

Because we view money differently, you have a hard time believing that I feel how I feel about it. That's understandable.

To me; money comes and money goes. Sometimes you have more than you need and other times things are tight. I have worked hard, pursued a college degree that would get me into an industry that is stable long term and now my family and I make enough that our life plans are properly funded. It wasn't good fortune. It was hard work and paying attention. Life is good for me right now and I like it when other people's lives are good, too.

I don't mind at all some of the money I have going to help others have a better shot at what I have right now. Desperation comes when people don't have enough money to pay for their lives and that desperation affects society at large. I have had times in my life where I was desperate. It was a scary existence. If some of my money helps reduce that for someone else then that makes me even happier.

I don't disagree with any of that. The difference is, you are choosing when, what, how, and how much of that is transferred from you to someone else. My objection is when the government confiscates it from me under the assumption that I can't be trusted to do it on my own.

[NewtonHawk11]

Tan suit

[twocoach]

I don't disagree with any of that. The difference is, you are choosing when, what, how, and how much of that is transferred from you to someone else. My objection is when the government confiscates it from me under the assumption that I can't be trusted to do it on my own.

What individuals do on their own simply isn't enough. Put an extra $1,000 in a responsible people's hands and they are much more likely to invest that $1,000 in to themselves than give it to others. Put $1,000 into the hands of an irresponsible person and it's most likely not going anywhere productive to anyone.

Was there a spike in charitable givings when the tax breaks went out? Nope. There isn't an assumption that people can't be trusted to share more if they have more. There is a mountain of statistical evidence that proves it. No assumptions needed.