Where's the petri dish thread?

[DCHawk1]

I've thought about Gates quite a bit through this. I haven't seen an interview with him yet. He has to be such a mixed bag of emotions right now.

There are going to be -- already are, in fact -- all sorts of people insisting that we need to build up this department and dramatically increase the funding for that agency and create this bureau, etc.

I get that, and I think there are lessons to be learned here and better ways to allocate federal resources.

Nevertheless, for sheer speed and flexibility, nothing beats market incentives. We just need to figure out ways to create those incentives BEFORE the crisis hits. Gates is leading the way on this, and even after Windows XP, I'm grateful to him.

I doubt the republican governors of Maryland and Massachusetts, not to mention the governors of New York, Washington, Illinois, California, Wisconsin, et al., would necessarily agree with you, since finding supplies has been described as like being on Ebay and bidding not only against the other governors and hospital chains, etc., but also. bidding against the US and foreign governments for PPE and ventilators, as the price rises and rises and rises and the supplies get away.

uhh...OK?

And yet Elon Musk was able to secure and deliver 1200 ventilators for California (although they may not be as useful as was hoped); Robert Kraft is bringing 1 million masks back from China today, and the federal government is probably AT LEAST three weeks away from being able to send you a fucking piece of paper.

[DCHawk1]

So...some thoughts.

1. "It's time for governments to rethink how to mitigate the emergence of superbugs, experts told ABC News."

Yes. How? Ban foreign travel? Mandatory quarantines upon entering the country? What could we do, given our political divisions, to "mitigate" this?

2. "Wildes said, bottom line, it's all about cooperation: "'We should realize that we are all in this together.'"

This is a nice thought, but it's also complete bullshit. The CCP is NOT in this with us. It is not a "partner." If you look at the totality of their actions since December, it's clear, that they're not interested in partnering with us on any level. So...what then?

Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity?

That's helpful.

Goodjobgoodpost.

[Shirley]

It's way past time:



President Trump says he is invoking the Defense Production Act (DPA) to clear up supply chain problems encountered in the manufacturing of medical ventilators.

“Today, I have issued an order under the Defense Production Act to more fully ensure that domestic manufacturers can produce ventilators needed to save American lives," Trump said in a statement.
The statement also said this order will help domestic manufacturers “secure the supplies they need to build ventilators needed to defeat the virus.”

The use of the DPA will remove supply chain obstacles that threaten the production of ventilators, the statement added.

“Today’s order will save lives by removing obstacles in the supply chain that threaten the rapid production of ventilators,” the statement said.

The order directs Department of Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf and Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar to "use any and all authority available under the Act to facilitate the supply of materials to the appropriate subsidiary or affiliate of the following entities for the production of ventilators: General Electric Company; Hill-Rom Holdings, Inc.; Medtronic Public Limited Company; ResMed Inc.; Royal Philips N.V.; and Vyaire Medical, Inc."

[jhawks99]

My sister-n-law has had Covid-19 for going on 2 weeks now. Her fever came back again yesterday. Gone today. She has to be fever-free for 72 hours. THEN, her family quarantine of 15 days begins... Luckily she's managed to stay out of the hospital, but she says it has been an absolute beating.

I hope she has a quick and full recovery, doyel.

[PhDhawk]

Stupid question/s time from someone who didn't pay attention in biology:

Am I correct to believe that upon awaking every morning I'm in a virus free local environment as far as the surfaces and the air in my home (outside of me possibly being a carrier)?

There are those who carry the virus but are asymptomatic. Does this mean that some will never succumb to the effect of the virus and, if so, how long does the virus stay in the carrier and how long are they considered contagious? Could they live with it forever?

As someone who teaches biology, I'm sad to hear that you didn't pay attention.

For your first question, as long as you or a visitor isn't a carrier, and none of your deliveries or items you bring home have the virus on them, it's pretty safe to assume that your house is virus free. But it can live on surfaces for up to days.

Yes, asymptomatic carriers never develop symptoms, but they are infected. To my knowledge there's no indication that an asymptomatic carrier chronically carries the virus. I think they're not likely contagious with the virus for any longer than people with symptoms.

Thanks for your response PhD, my ADHD addled brain couldn't pay attention to a host of other important topics back in my teenage years, either.

That's why I'm glad to teach college students rather than high school students

[DCHawk1]

I've thought about Gates quite a bit through this. I haven't seen an interview with him yet. He has to be such a mixed bag of emotions right now.

There are going to be -- already are, in fact -- all sorts of people insisting that we need to build up this department and dramatically increase the funding for that agency and create this bureau, etc.

I get that, and I think there are lessons to be learned here and better ways to allocate federal resources.

Nevertheless, for sheer speed and flexibility, nothing beats market incentives. We just need to figure out ways to create those incentives BEFORE the crisis hits. Gates is leading the way on this, and even after Windows XP, I'm grateful to him.

Couldn't decide which of your two previous posts to respond to, but I will to this one. I am in general agreement with everything you wrote in both of them with one additional point. While the exact numbers are somewhat dated (from maybe 15-20 years ago) the underlying point is still the same. The numbers were that the COMBINED amount of money spent on researching cures/treatments for infective diseases by all major pharma companies was less than what was spent marketing Little Blue Pills or any number of "lifestyle" drugs. The "market incentives" are exactly the reason that entities like the Pandemic Response Team (or whatever the official name was) get disbanded. It's like no one needing the Fire Department, until they do. The "market forces" are not interested in poor people dying in S./C. America, Africa and Asia, as they don't command the same ROI on drugs. This was the state of affairs until the Gates Foundation got involved. While the numbers are slightly better now, they are not orders of magnitude better than what they used to be, or needs to be.

We have not learned enough to maintain a critical mass of researchers who form a kind of SWAT team to quickly mobilize to solve the most current problem and stay just that much in front of the wave. This team needs to transcend borders, cultures and politics - perhaps under the auspices of MSF/DWB. Much easier said than done.

There's undoubtedly truth in this, but it's also a little more complicated.

Why do pharma companies not invest in infectious diseases in general and vaccines in particular? Cuz there's no money in it.

According to the GAO, a big part of the problem is the federal Vaccines for Children program, which (starting in 1993) made childhood vaccines for children practically free for EVERYONE, including those with insurance and ability to pay. In the decades before the program, the US had 25 companies producing vaccines year-round. Today, by contrast, we have FAR fewer. The number fell to 4 in the late 1990's. And If you go to the web site of the Immunization Action Coalition, you’ll see that there are now ten companies that manufacture vaccines in the United States. But of those, two are foreign-owned and only two – Merck and GSK – are what you might call “full-service” vaccine manufacturers, meaning that they make a full line of vaccines.

Like I said, it's complicated.

[DCHawk1]

Perfect.

[Deleted User 307]

Perfect.

Holup, this thing can attack our brains now too?

[Geezer]

Save the market forces bullshit for the insulin users.

[seahawk]

^^^^^^^^^^ This.

[Geezer]

[Shirley]

There are going to be -- already are, in fact -- all sorts of people insisting that we need to build up this department and dramatically increase the funding for that agency and create this bureau, etc.

I get that, and I think there are lessons to be learned here and better ways to allocate federal resources.

Nevertheless, for sheer speed and flexibility, nothing beats market incentives. We just need to figure out ways to create those incentives BEFORE the crisis hits. Gates is leading the way on this, and even after Windows XP, I'm grateful to him.

I doubt the republican governors of Maryland and Massachusetts, not to mention the governors of New York, Washington, Illinois, California, Wisconsin, et al., would necessarily agree with you, since finding supplies has been described as like being on Ebay and bidding not only against the other governors and hospital chains, etc., but also. bidding against the US and foreign governments for PPE and ventilators, as the price rises and rises and rises and the supplies get away.

uhh...OK?

And yet Elon Musk was able to secure and deliver 1200 ventilators for California (although they may not be as useful as was hoped); Robert Kraft is bringing 1 million masks back from China today, and the federal government is probably AT LEAST three weeks away from being able to send you a fucking piece of paper.

Not the best example you could pick because there likely wasn't much competition for what Elon donated:

'Ventilators' donated by Elon Musk can't be used on coronavirus patients, health officials say

...After weeks of brushing off the COVID-19 pandemic as "dumb," the billionaire Tesla founder earlier this week announced he had 1,000 "FDA-approved ventilators" and ended up donating 40 to New York City's hospital system. Except the devices Musk gave away aren't powerful enough to use in the ICU, and health officials have actually warned against using them on COVID-19 patients because they could spread the virus further.

What Musk purchased and gave to New York's hospitals were BiPAP machines made by ResMed, a photo shared by the hospital system reveals. ResMed CEO Mick Farrell later confirmed Musk's purchase of 1,000 5-year-old "bi-level, non-invasive ventilators" known as BiPAPs to CNBC, and said it was "fantastic" that Tesla could transport ResMed's product like it did.

[...]

[Shirley]

[Geezer]

He'll be elbow deep in that bailout money. What are you going to do, impeach him?

[DCHawk1]

I doubt the republican governors of Maryland and Massachusetts, not to mention the governors of New York, Washington, Illinois, California, Wisconsin, et al., would necessarily agree with you, since finding supplies has been described as like being on Ebay and bidding not only against the other governors and hospital chains, etc., but also. bidding against the US and foreign governments for PPE and ventilators, as the price rises and rises and rises and the supplies get away.

uhh...OK?

And yet Elon Musk was able to secure and deliver 1200 ventilators for California (although they may not be as useful as was hoped); Robert Kraft is bringing 1 million masks back from China today, and the federal government is probably AT LEAST three weeks away from being able to send you a fucking piece of paper.

Not the best example you could pick because there likely wasn't much competition for what Elon donated:

'Ventilators' donated by Elon Musk can't be used on coronavirus patients, health officials say

...After weeks of brushing off the COVID-19 pandemic as "dumb," the billionaire Tesla founder earlier this week announced he had 1,000 "FDA-approved ventilators" and ended up donating 40 to New York City's hospital system. Except the devices Musk gave away aren't powerful enough to use in the ICU, and health officials have actually warned against using them on COVID-19 patients because they could spread the virus further.

What Musk purchased and gave to New York's hospitals were BiPAP machines made by ResMed, a photo shared by the hospital system reveals. ResMed CEO Mick Farrell later confirmed Musk's purchase of 1,000 5-year-old "bi-level, non-invasive ventilators" known as BiPAPs to CNBC, and said it was "fantastic" that Tesla could transport ResMed's product like it did.

[...]

Yeah. That was the parenthetical.

But you sure showed me!

[Geezer]

Maybe the plane load of supplies that we bought from Russia will be a higher quality.

[Deleted User 89]

found this interesting/fascinating

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/histor ... deadliest/

[Shirley]

found this interesting/fascinating

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/histor ... deadliest/

^^^

Very interesting:

[PhDhawk]

So which is worse? A plague style epidemic, or something like tuberculosis which remains endemic and kills about a million people a year and has killed well over a billion in history. It's the infectious disease with the highest death total in history.

[Deleted User 307]

So which is worse? A plague style epidemic, or something like tuberculosis which kills about a million people a year and has killed well over a billion in history. It's the infectious disease with the highest death total in history.

A plague style epidemic is worse. We still get NCAA tournament and I can still go to a bar with TB around.