Where's the petri dish thread?

[zsn]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2009457

Here is a very thoughtful and systematic analysis of the approval of therapies for COVID-19, including the malaria drugs.

"Rigorous premarketing evaluation of drugs’ safety and effectiveness in randomized, controlled trials remains our primary tool for protecting the public from drugs that are ineffective, unsafe, or both. It is a false dichotomy to suggest that we must choose between rapid deployment of treatments and adequate scientific scrutiny. For the Covid-19 pandemic and other pressing medical challenges, the health of individual patients and the public at large will be best served by remaining true to our time-tested approach to clinical trial evidence and drug evaluation, rather than cutting corners and resorting to appealing yet risky quick fixes. The pandemic will inevitably leave considerable morbidity, mortality, and loss in its wake. Damage to the country’s medication-assessment process — and the public’s respect for it — should not be part of its legacy."

[zsn]

Just for $hts and giggles I went back and looked at what was happening in this thread way back when and it's very interesting to read pages 3, 4 and 5 of this thread - first mention of the virus currently known as COVID-19 was on Jan 20 and by Jan 24 or so the "ha ha Chinese illness" and jokes about The Wall (not the Pink Floyd album) had morphed into "WTF, we're all going to die". If this is a reasonable representation of the cross section of the population (and to the first approximation it may be) we were taking it a lot seriously than the so-called Leaders - cf. Trump's comments at Davos.

[Shirley]

I wish this was only a "political" post, but more than that, it's a threat to us all:

(Psych must be soiling himself in glee.)

[TDub]

Just for $hts and giggles I went back and looked at what was happening in this thread way back when and it's very interesting to read pages 3, 4 and 5 of this thread - first mention of the virus currently known as COVID-19 was on Jan 20 and by Jan 24 or so the "ha ha Chinese illness" and jokes about The Wall (not the Pink Floyd album) had morphed into "WTF, we're all going to die". If this is a reasonable representation of the cross section of the population (and to the first approximation it may be) we were taking it a lot seriously than the so-called Leaders - cf. Trump's comments at Davos.

Its interesting to see who took it more seriously and who wasnt concerned.....

[HouseDivided]

I wish this was only a "political" post, but more than that, it's a threat to us all:

(Psych must be soiling himself in glee.)

Forcing the government to listen to the people? Outrageous!

[jfish26]

I wish this was only a "political" post, but more than that, it's a threat to us all:

(Psych must be soiling himself in glee.)

At some point, you should get deprioritized for beds/vents if you get sick by being a complete fucking idiot.

I realize this is fraught with moral/ethical issues, but we make it work in the transplant context.

[zsn]

Just for $hts and giggles I went back and looked at what was happening in this thread way back when and it's very interesting to read pages 3, 4 and 5 of this thread - first mention of the virus currently known as COVID-19 was on Jan 20 and by Jan 24 or so the "ha ha Chinese illness" and jokes about The Wall (not the Pink Floyd album) had morphed into "WTF, we're all going to die". If this is a reasonable representation of the cross section of the population (and to the first approximation it may be) we were taking it a lot seriously than the so-called Leaders - cf. Trump's comments at Davos.

Its interesting to see who took it more seriously and who wasnt concerned.....

Are you asking to know the answer or *because* you know the answer

Looks like you and Illy (I'm assuming he's the "deleted user") were way ahead of everyone in taking the threat seriously. I can't see too many people pooh-pooing this, at least early on

[CrimsonNBlue]

I wish this was only a "political" post, but more than that, it's a threat to us all:

(Psych must be soiling himself in glee.)

At some point, you should get deprioritized for beds/vents if you get sick by being a complete fucking idiot.

I realize this is fraught with moral/ethical issues, but we make it work in the transplant context.

Start with the house partiers, beach goers and church servicers. .

[jfish26]

dEAth PaNElS!!

[pdub]

death penis?

[TDub]

Just for $hts and giggles I went back and looked at what was happening in this thread way back when and it's very interesting to read pages 3, 4 and 5 of this thread - first mention of the virus currently known as COVID-19 was on Jan 20 and by Jan 24 or so the "ha ha Chinese illness" and jokes about The Wall (not the Pink Floyd album) had morphed into "WTF, we're all going to die". If this is a reasonable representation of the cross section of the population (and to the first approximation it may be) we were taking it a lot seriously than the so-called Leaders - cf. Trump's comments at Davos.

Its interesting to see who took it more seriously and who wasnt concerned.....

Are you asking to know the answer or *because* you know the answer

Looks like you and Illy (I'm assuming he's the "deleted user") were way ahead of everyone in taking the threat seriously. I can't see too many people pooh-pooing this, at least early on

Kinda both. I remember someone responding to my concern by saying its a minimal issue. I think it was geezer.

[DCHawk1]

At some point, you should get deprioritized for beds/vents if you get sick by being a complete fucking idiot.

I realize this is fraught with moral/ethical issues, but we make it work in the transplant context.

My god.

[DCHawk1]

Oh.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ed-chines/

Washington Times?

Lulz

[jfish26]

At some point, you should get deprioritized for beds/vents if you get sick by being a complete fucking idiot.

I realize this is fraught with moral/ethical issues, but we make it work in the transplant context.

My god.

Where I sit is subject to a stay-at-home order except for essential travel and business. My family has complied with the order, with my wife having had to go out a couple times (as she works for an essential business).

You're goddamn right that if she gets sick, and there's one bed available, she should get a bed over someone who got sick because they violated the orders.

[DCHawk1]

At some point, you should get deprioritized for beds/vents if you get sick by being a complete fucking idiot.

I realize this is fraught with moral/ethical issues, but we make it work in the transplant context.

My god.

Where I sit is subject to a stay-at-home order except for essential travel and business. My family has complied with the order, with my wife having had to go out a couple times (as she works for an essential business).

You're goddamn right that if she gets sick, and there's one bed available, she should get a bed over someone who got sick because they violated the orders.

That's not how ANY of this works, nor how any of it SHOULD work.

And I think, in saner moments, you know that.

[jfish26]

I'm not sure at all what is illogical about what I'm saying. If there ends up being a situation in which critical healthcare resources need to be rationed (because of this disease), I don't think it's at all unreasonable to deprioritize people who broke rules designed to prevent spread of this disease.

[Deleted User 289]

Would it help if I ran over to Northwestern Hospital and gave them 2000 bucks or would it take at least 3 more zeros for me to feel I'm going to be a priority?

Coincidently at 2:51pm I received the following email.....

Dear (name deleted by me),

Thank you for your continued support as we all confront the COVID-19 pandemic. The challenges brought by this situation are driving all of us at Lurie Children’s to be more innovative, flexible and resourceful in our determination to provide essential pediatric care in an environment that is as safe as possible for our patients and their families, our faculty and staff, and our community.

Since children, fortunately, continue to be only mildly impacted by COVID-19, we are committed to supporting local adult hospitals during this crisis. As part of this effort, we loaned 10 ventilators and we are ready to care for any pediatric inpatients from adult hospitals to allow more beds for adult care. We also have temporarily increased the age limit for patient care at Lurie Children’s to 25 years old, to extend our resources to young adults and create more capacity in adult facilities for treating adult COVID-19 patients.

To keep our patients and their families safely at home, Lurie Children’s started converting outpatient appointments to telemedicine visits. We also have prepared for use of telemedicine in all inpatient isolation rooms and rooms in the Emergency Department. This allows the care team to provide updates, specialist consultations and family support services while protecting our faculty and staff from exposure and minimizing the use of personal protective equipment.

Lurie Children’s also has partnered with Governor Pritzker to address the needs of children and adolescents during this pandemic. A Virtual Youth Town Hall was held this past Saturday via Zoom with connection to Lurie Children’s Facebook Live. In addition to the Governor, Zoom participants included Colleen Cicchetti, PhD, a child psychologist at Lurie Children’s who directs the Center for Childhood Resilience. The Governor and Dr. Cicchetti responded to questions from youth that were gathered in advance via social media and during the event.

In this era of social distancing, we must reaffirm our solidarity in creative new ways. We have heard from so many of you that you would like to help. We’ve compiled a list of ways to help us during this time. As we face this unprecedented situation together, I am deeply grateful for all that you do on behalf of the children, their families and the community we serve.

Sincerely,
Signature of Thomas P. Shanley

Thomas P. Shanley, MD
President & CEO
Ann & Robert H. Lurie Children’s Hospital of Chicago

[DCHawk1]

I'm not sure at all what is illogical about what I'm saying. If there ends up being a situation in which critical healthcare resources need to be rationed (because of this disease), I don't think it's at all unreasonable to deprioritize people who broke rules designed to prevent spread of this disease.

It's NOT illogical. And it's NOT unreasonable.

But it IS immoral. It IS unethical. And it IS destructive of the basic social contract, the basic agreement between the state and its citizens. The implications and ramifications and extended consequences are unimaginably horrible. And adding the conditional "(because of this disease)" doesn't change any of that, unless this is PURELY an academic exercise.

[DCHawk1]

And I say that as someone who is on lockdown; has his kids on lockdown; has a high school senior daughter who will have no prom, no graduation, and possibly no freshman year in college; and who practically spits nails 5 or 6 times a day when the neighbors and their daughters go out, "get coffee," hang out with the boyfriend, etc.

[twocoach]

I'm not sure at all what is illogical about what I'm saying. If there ends up being a situation in which critical healthcare resources need to be rationed (because of this disease), I don't think it's at all unreasonable to deprioritize people who broke rules designed to prevent spread of this disease.

There is no place for personal morals in an emergency room. You address the most critical cases in order whether they are child rapists, idiots who broke quarantine or your own mother. They are patients, period.