Who you gonna blame?

[japhy]

Serious question.

Who you gonna blame when you find out what the fallout/results are from the now $660B PPP “loan” money? Are you going to blame the trumpublicans, or the Demonrats? My guess is we won’t know who the winners and losers are from this program until after the November elections. But we will be able to identify some losers due to attrition by year’s end. So all we will have left is the blame game about a year from now when the press has the chance to dig through the data they access and figure out what happened to that money.

Republicans like to say that government shouldn’t pick winners and losers.

Whatever……winners and losers are now being picked. PPP loan recipients, whoever they are, just won.

To put this program into perspective there was about $426B in TARP money put into the economy in 2008. This was in the form of loans and stock transfers and less than 10 years later the Feds recouped the money and by some accounts the taxpayers/Treasury made money off the deal. Many firms had to limit compensation to executives, there was collateral involved, I seem to recall there was some means/needs testing.

Fast forward to 2020, we are now seeing a dump of $660B into companies as “loans”. Has anyone else looked into this program? I read through the documentation three times. After the first time I thought OK, I missed it, where is the catch? After the second I thought, no really there is no catch? After the third reading I thought holy fuck, who wrote this and why are they doing this? There is no collateral, there is no means testing, there is loan forgiveness with very few conditions. My guess is that less than 35% of this will return to the Treasury as taxes on income. So $430B of this money was just given away. That is more than the amount actually loaned out and repaid under TARP. And this is just part of the $2T, now heading towards $3T, being doled out.

The first round of PPP was $350B dumped in the banks and in one week….it was gone. Now round two is rolling out with another $310B is coming and the lines will be long and it will disappear just as fast….and then there will be cries for round three.

Here are my questions for you, the answers aren’t clear right now but there is enough information out there right now to make some educated guesses.

Who do you think got the money in round 1?

Who decided where the money was going?

What will be the fallout of the PPP money and what are the longer term consequences? ( hint: will it help budding entrepreneurs or older established businesses? )

Come on ( yes, I am looking at you DC ), don’t be shy, there are no wrong answers, yet. Tell us what you think. Feel free to promote any conspiracy theories you may formulate. I will give you my view from my experience in due time, but I don’t want to spoil the plot.

Some of you just got a $1200 no strings attached check; but a whole category of stockholders got checks that were from 100X to 1000X that.

[Shirley]

April 7, 2020 Trump Ousts Inspector General Set to Oversee Relief Spending

Who TF does that?

Answer: Someone with something to hide.

/thread

[DCHawk1]

If you're looking at me, then you should already know my answer.

I blame everyone. Some more than others, naturally, but ALL of them to a SIGNIFICANT degree. I blame President Trump and the Republicans. I blame Speaker Pelosi and the Democrats. I blame Goldman Fucking Sachs and its three Treasury Secretaries in the last quarter century. I blame Alan Greenspan, Ben Bernanke, Janet Yellen, Jerome Powell, and every other fucking bootlicking toadie at the Fed. I blame Barack Obama. I blame George W. Bush. I blame Bill Clinton. I blame Larry Fink and BlackFuckingRock. I blame John Snow (another Treasury Secretary) and Cerberus Capital. I blame Mario Draghi and Christine Lagarde. I blame Bob Iger and Rupert Murdoch. I blame Jeff Zucker and Jeff Bezos and Pinch Sulzberger. I blame Warren Buffet and Bill Ackman and Ray Motherfucking Dalio and Marc Benioff. I blame the Libertarian Party for nominating a dope who thought the state should regulate speech, but who seemed neato because he worked for a pot company.

I blame them all...and more.

Burn It The Fuck Down.

Burn It ALL The Fuck Down.

[Geezer]

you first

[DCHawk1]

lulz

Done.

[ousdahl]

April 7, 2020 Trump Ousts Inspector General Set to Oversee Relief Spending

Who TF does that?

Answer: Someone with something to hide.

/thread

No one matters because nothing cares any more.

[japhy]

If you're looking at me, then you should already know my answer.

I blame everyone. Some more than others, naturally, but ALL of them to a SIGNIFICANT degree. I blame President Trump and the Republicans. I blame Speaker Pelosi and the Democrats. I blame Goldman Fucking Sachs and its three Treasury Secretaries in the last quarter century. I blame Alan Greenspan, Ben Bernanke, Janet Yellen, Jerome Powell, and every other fucking bootlicking toadie at the Fed. I blame Barack Obama. I blame George W. Bush. I blame Bill Clinton. I blame Larry Fink and BlackFuckingRock. I blame John Snow (another Treasury Secretary) and Cerberus Capital. I blame Mario Draghi and Christine Lagarde. I blame Bob Iger and Rupert Murdoch. I blame Jeff Zucker and Jeff Bezos and Pinch Sulzberger. I blame Warren Buffet and Bill Ackman and Ray Motherfucking Dalio and Marc Benioff. I blame the Libertarian Party for nominating a dope who thought the state should regulate speech, but who seemed neato because he worked for a pot company.

I blame them all...and more.

Burn It The Fuck Down.

Burn It ALL The Fuck Down.

Well, that sounds cathartic.

But try to member, we are all in this together! We will all get through this if we just practice empathy....in moderation. Cuz some of us need to get through it more better than others.

I am going to venture a guess that you will agree with me on the answers to the other three questions as well.

[PhDhawk]

We're all Bernanke now

[japhy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... -loan-faq/

[DCHawk1]

Well, that sounds cathartic.

But try to member, we are all in this together! We will all get through this if we just practice empathy....in moderation. Cuz some of us need to get through it more better than others.

I am going to venture a guess that you will agree with me on the answers to the other three questions as well.

Yes, empathy...for now. But then, when it's over, pitchforks, tar, feathers, etc.

Who do you think got the money in round 1?
Goldman Sachs

Who decided where the money was going?
Goldman Sachs

What will be the fallout of the PPP money and what are the longer term consequences?

The current rift between the ruling class and the country class will grow sharply larger and we will wind up, one day soon, with a populist lunatic leader who makes us looks back at Trump with nostalgia for his calmness, rationality, and competence.

[Deleted User 89]

all i know is that if Ruth’s Chris and Shake Shack are getting theirs, there are countless local businesses, the mom and pops type places, that are missing out and likely to go under

[PhDhawk]

all i know is that if Ruth’s Chris and Shake Shack are getting theirs, there are countless local businesses, the mom and pops type places, that are missing out and likely to go under

Did the money go to the corporations or to individual franchises? I'm asking because I don't know. But that would make a big difference in how I feel about it.

[seahawk]

Ruth Chris's are apparently company run, not franchisees.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/20/mark-cu ... brand.html

Shake Shack's website says they do not franchise.

[Deleted User 89]

i heard/read that the reason/excuse for why one of them, i forget which, applied and got money was because each individual location had relatively few employees

[ousdahl]

Well, that sounds cathartic.

But try to member, we are all in this together! We will all get through this if we just practice empathy....in moderation. Cuz some of us need to get through it more better than others.

I am going to venture a guess that you will agree with me on the answers to the other three questions as well.

Yes, empathy...for now. But then, when it's over, pitchforks, tar, feathers, etc.

Who do you think got the money in round 1?
Goldman Sachs

Who decided where the money was going?
Goldman Sachs

What will be the fallout of the PPP money and what are the longer term consequences?

The current rift between the ruling class and the country class will grow sharply larger and we will wind up, one day soon, with a populist lunatic leader who makes us looks back at Trump with nostalgia for his calmness, rationality, and competence.

Does every populist leader have to be a lunatic?

[chiknbut]

I believe Shake Shack gave back their approved loan.

Also heard that McDonald's got a lot. Possibly because they're franchised?

[japhy]

I believe Shake Shack gave back their approved loan.

Also heard that McDonald's got a lot. Possibly because they're franchised?

At one point it was supposed to be companies with 500 employees or less but then it was "fixed" to say 500 employees at a location so that hotel and restaurants chains could get a piece of the pie.

Ruth's Chris has 5700 employees and annual revenues of $486M

Shake Shack has 6100 employees ands annual revenues of $460M

Individual McDonald's franchises are legitimate small mom and pop businesses and employee count and revenues vary widely. If you have tried to do drive thru lately you know these businesses are not thriving, but they are staying afloat. In a recession the operating mode is stay afloat and stay as intact as possible. Be ready to serve customers when things turn around.

The amount of the loan is for 2.5 months payroll not to exceed $10M, so the two big companies maxed out before they hit 2.5 months payroll and Ruth's has a subsidiary so they could double dip and get $20M.

These two big firms have access to banks for lots more money than this, but if the Feds are giving money away and your banker says you qualify, we will process your loan, we already have your financial data. Well, why not take it? As Shake Shack decided, because it could be a public relations nightmare for your brand. Rather than piss people/customers off for what is in essence a drop in the financial bucket for them, make a show of giving it back. So far Ruth's Chris seems to be thinking their customer demographic don't care. They may be right. Even if it is not all forgiven it is a dirt cheap loan.

Here's the thing, the money was put out before anyone knew who would really need it, and how much would be needed, so if you think you might need it you better grab it fast. Like within a day of it being available.

[japhy]

Yes, empathy...for now. But then, when it's over, pitchforks, tar, feathers, etc.

Who do you think got the money in round 1?
Goldman Sachs

Who decided where the money was going?
Goldman Sachs

What will be the fallout of the PPP money and what are the longer term consequences?

The current rift between the ruling class and the country class will grow sharply larger and we will wind up, one day soon, with a populist lunatic leader who makes us looks back at Trump with nostalgia for his calmness, rationality, and competence.

Lighten up Francis, President AOC is just the pendulum swinging in the opposite direction from tiny. How bad could it be?

I heard another bank is processing more than Goldman. I had three big projects on the books at the start of the month. One was a cruise line HQ in Miami, you can guess what has happened to that project. One is a giant tech company with multiple complexes out in Cali and their mega projects just went on hold in mid-construction much to my surprise, I figured they would still spend but they are holding cash now. The third is a bank HQ on Park Ave, it is about 80 stories and the only question seems to be whether the architectural gilding on the edges of the monster should be silver or gold? They seem to be pretty optimistic about their future. It's all about public appearances for them now I suppose. Personally, I think the gold would be nice "fuck you all" touch. I mean if you are going to say it, you might as well yell it.

[Sparko]

Nobody could have foreseen putting an idiotic sociopath in power working for Putin would bring down everything. This is an Ayn Rand longterm joke.

[DCHawk1]

I heard another bank is processing more than Goldman.

Probably. it's just that Goldman and Blackrock are up to their necks in this shit.

And I resent them to begin with.