F the NCAA

[jfish26]

It's a tough decision for any kid growing up, regardless of if they play basketball or not, to have a family struggling to pay bills.

Some mothers would press to have their kid take a step to getting something that might help them long term and help that kids potential family in the future.

If you don't value the things that college basketball provides, which at its heart should be an education ( regardless of what it is now and that's a big part of what I'm arguing - so i'm not going "miss you" with the "nonsense" ) in basketball and in whatever you decide to become, then the argument is moot.

Getting to go to school completely free, no cost to anyone in your family, is very valuable.
But i'm sure JFish and CnB have some way of making that comment racist as well.

1 - Man, would I not want to be on the side of this argument that leads me to say things like "eh, fine with me if a good player doesn't play college basketball because he is prohibited from making the $50k his family would need in order to make college a rational choice."

2 - There is - obviously, it's why this thread exists - significant opportunity cost to playing college basketball. And it would cost the powers that be nothing material, and it would not hurt 99% of fans one bit, for that opportunity cost to be blunted.

[pdub]

I think you open a can of worms ( and there's already lots of cans of lots of worms ) that would result in even more venues a universities athletic department could funnel money into buying the best players if you allowed players to take jobs or merchandise money. I would prefer the opposite of that.

Either they push a certain way ( i.e. enforcement ), which they seem to be trying to do but I don't really have that much faith in the NCAA, and the G League/other pro leagues become/s more lucrative, or they open it up and I stop caring nearly as much.

They won't do this but they need to sit down and come out with clear rules that specify infractions and related punishment.
This would include punishment for the staff ( game suspensions ).

Get rid of the NBA age restriction.
Allow a player to return to college if they don't sign with an agent and don't get drafted.
Regulate fairly across all programs -- this is very important.
For every year a player attends college, they get another year at said college, paid tuition/room/board/all amenities they experienced for future use ( i.e. could use it for grad school down the line ).
Try to lessen endorsement/sponsorship/merch deals with other companies

I think the G League should format themselves to be more of a 18-24 year old league.
Maybe you have 3-4 spots for veterans ( so you can still send your guys down ) but try to maximize on youth.
Integrate it into the NBA better - maybe at All Star Break the G League all stars play the NBA rookie all stars.
Truly make your league a scouting organization instead of relying on your age rule/college to do so.

And go over the top with marketing/advertising.
Nike/Adidas/UA/Puma splashing all over the place.
Use tech to push the league - partner with FB live to feature court side footage, live fantasy betting, maybe get different popular icons ( investors ) to have more involvement with the team ( i.e. half time Post Malone shows ) - exclusive content etc etc etc.

[Deleted User 310]

the problem right now doesn't seem to be athletic departments "funneling money" to players.

It seems to be shoe companies/agents funneling money to players to establish a relationship with them...and part of that seems to be achieved by establishing relationships with our coaches....and that's why Gasnolla sat at Selfs table for his HOF induction.

[Deleted User 310]

NBA age restriction isn't an NCAA rule.

Why would the G League make themselves smaller to accommodate the NCAA issues with unfair treatment of players?

Also, multiple NBA execs have said the reason they're trying to expand the G League is because college isn't doing a great job at preparing players for the NBA or developing top end talent. They also recognize that the ncaa rules are extremely unfair and over reaching.

[jfish26]

I think you open a can of worms ( and there's already lots of cans of lots of worms ) that would result in even more venues a universities athletic department could funnel money into buying the best players if you allowed players to take jobs or merchandise money. I would prefer the opposite of that.

Either they push a certain way ( i.e. enforcement ), which they seem to be trying to do but I don't really have that much faith in the NCAA, and the G League/other pro leagues become/s more lucrative, or they open it up and I stop caring nearly as much.

They won't do this but they need to sit down and come out with clear rules that specify infractions and related punishment.
This would include punishment for the staff ( game suspensions ).

Get rid of the NBA age restriction.
Allow a player to return to college if they don't sign with an agent and don't get drafted.
Regulate fairly across all programs -- this is very important.
For every year a player attends college, they get another year at said college, paid tuition/room/board/all amenities they experienced for future use ( i.e. could use it for grad school down the line ).
Try to lessen endorsement/sponsorship/merch deals with other companies

I think the G League should format themselves to be more of a 18-24 year old league.
Maybe you have 3-4 spots for veterans ( so you can still send your guys down ) but try to maximize on youth.
Integrate it into the NBA better - maybe at All Star Break the G League all stars play the NBA rookie all stars.
Truly make your league a scouting organization instead of relying on your age rule/college to do so.

And go over the top with marketing/advertising.
Nike/Adidas/UA/Puma splashing all over the place.
Use tech to push the league - partner with FB live to feature court side footage, live fantasy betting, maybe get different popular icons ( investors ) to have more involvement with the team ( i.e. half time Post Malone shows ) - exclusive content etc etc etc.

What is actually, fundamentally different now from how things were during the Brown/Williams years?

Why does it bother you now, but it did not then, that players do not have the exact same experiences as most other students?

I would suggest that the general answer to these things is that now you know, and you don't like knowing.

So, maybe a different question: what is it that you actually like about college basketball?

[CrimsonNBlue]

NBA is expanding G-League b/c they smell blood.

[pdub]

So, maybe a different question: what is it that you actually like about college basketball?

The college basketball.

[jfish26]

So, maybe a different question: what is it that you actually like about college basketball?

The college basketball.

Doesn't seem like it! College basketball has been this, at the time of both of our NCAA championships, and of course now. That's a long fucking time to stick with something you don't like.

[CrimsonNBlue]

The sports weren't set up to provide the education. They existed prior to scholarships as extracurriculars. Like high schools. Scholarships were partly an enticement to get certain athletes to come and stay. It's compensation and now the value is a lot more than room & board. It's been this way for decades.

It wasn't set up as a vehicle to get a poor black kid an education. They were banned from playing for decades.

[pdub]

I go to a hole in the wall local pub ( or used to pre-covid ) because I like the people.
If the local pub gets a new more expensive menu, a big loud digital jukebox, installs a dance floor and a bunch of new clientele come in who I don't vibe with, i'll find a different pub.

Some people who love that pub won't care if the pub has changed - it's still the pub in name for them - and that's fine too.

And the pub ain't perfect. There are things i'd change. But i'd rather it not have the big loud digital jukebox.

[Deleted User 310]

Club sports. Intramural sports. Kansas has both that you can follow. My roommate in college played intramural baseball and really enjoyed it.

Kansas basketball isn't a small local pub that nobody knows about. It's more like Dave and Busters. Or an ESPNZone.... do they still have those!?!?

[Deleted User 310]

NBA is expanding G-League b/c they smell blood.

ya but it's not really a large expansion if I understood the description provided about the program. These top HS guys aren't getting drafted to random G League teams. It is 1 team. Limited games (against international teams and maybe some g league games). Focus on development and preparing for NBA (both on and off the court).

Not that they couldn't expand it more in different ways...but this special program where kids get 500k is relatively small.

[pdub]

But I attended KU.
And have followed KU since I was a kid.
And if at these crossroads the G League got the kids who wanted to play pro to play pro and college became more an amateur sport than it is now, i'd be into it.

And I do watch some local high school sports on TV when they are on -- but I don't have an allegiance to these small Maine schools.

There are things that are subjective in life that some people agree with and others don't. There are rules in place - and rules are broken - but just because they are being broken doesn't mean that, if you agree with the rules, you just should give up on them.

If the rules are abandoned, just like if there was a law that changed and affected something else I enjoyed or my livelihood, i'd be bummed and try to separate myself from the situation.

But i'd probably stop following Kansas as much as I do - more like I follow the Celtics.
Watch a few games a year and then the playoffs.
In a sense, i'd be BBW'ing Chaded.

If we start talking contracts 5 years from now in college sports, i'll just watch more NBA, that's the best place to watch the pros.

[Deleted User 310]

You keep doing this thing where you make it about the schools paying the players when that's not what we are talking about.

I'm assuming it is intentional?

[pdub]

"For example, the regulators might determine through market research that the fair value of an athlete appearing on a 30-second radio commercial for a local restaurant is somewhere between $5,000 and $10,000. If a restaurant owner instead offers to pay the new star quarterback at his local college $100,000 to appear in a commercial, the regulators will say that the price is clearly overvalued and intended to reward the player's athletic ability and entice future recruits."

This is gonna be a nightmare and just allow boosters to funnel money in unlimited channels. OK so the max for a TV commercial is 15k, cool, we are gonna shoot 6 TV commercials.

Here's hoping the G League keeps getting more lucrative.

The problem is that likely more often than not, these channels will just be ways to pay a college athlete to play basketball at the university rather than actually providing a service worth the value.

If Phil Knight has 5 of the top recruits star in a 15 second spot and pays them each 80k, I don't think that the return of that spot is even considered, it's more a way to get the top 5 recruits 80k.

And now college players will be more focused on earning these endorsements throughout the year.

It's a meh from me.

Come on G League.

[Deleted User 310]

So, maybe a different question: what is it that you actually like about college basketball?

The college basketball.

Doesn't seem like it! College basketball has been this, at the time of both of our NCAA championships, and of course now. That's a long fucking time to stick with something you don't like.

Exactly.

Nothing changed other than the FBI wiretapping some of the top recruiters in the country (shoe company funded recruiters).


And yet I don't remember pdub thinking or saying Self and Townsend should be fired/banned for being friends with someone who clearly only has 1 purpose (to influence/recruit players to adidas schools).

[pdub]

I'd turn the punishments to the coaches as well.
Multiple game suspensions for coaches, active whenever they applied to start coaching again.

[Deleted User 310]

I'd turn the punishments to the coaches as well.
Multiple game suspensions for coaches, active whenever they applied to start coaching again.

I think that if the ncaa expects to remain the same as they are currently, but with WAY more following of the rules, then Self is going to need/deserve a lifetime ban. The first step to getting the players to stop receiving improper benefits is to make it so that the players taking them aren't recruited to the top schools (KU, Duke, UNC, UK, etc). The coaches will need incentive. Losing multi million dollar a year jobs might do it.

Also: why are amatuer athlete coaches getting multi million dollar a year salaries? If this is truly amatuer sports then the basketball coach shouldn't be the highest paid employee of the school imo. (I don't mean that in a smart ass way....it can't be EVERYONE but the players getting rich if true amatuerism is the goal)

[pdub]

Literally go back and read this thread.
Every single thing i've responded with so far today ( except this post right here unless this counts b/c I just posted it ) are things I have already said in this thread and have copy pasted.
My answers are in there.

[Deleted User 310]

I don't think you can declare a player ineligible forever and then only give a coach 5 games. They're both breaking the rules. Honeslty, if we're just discussing enforcement of the rules and leave whether we agree with the rules out of it, then I think what Self/Townsend appeared to have been involved in is MUCH worse than a player taking $50k from a shoe company to go to a brand school.


(And yes. I was aware you were just saying the same things over and over illy style....i think the rest of us are genuinely trying to have meaningful discussion with you and each other though... so don't feel attacked. I don't think you're wrong for wanting what you want. I just don't know how you could have liked college basketball during your lifetime though if those are the things important to you).