Who is the GOAT

[TDub]

The reactions suggest ND is correct.

Nah. The premise is silly. I dont hate Kobe, magic, bird. Those were all threats way earlier than boo boo James.

First real threat. 2 of the guys you mention were out of the league before MJ really started laying claim to best ever. Hard for them to be threatening his legacy when theirs was already written.

Id take Kobe over Lebron. Kobe was cut from the same cloth as Michael. Lebrons more of something off the discount rack and Jo'anns, but with as much raw talent as anyone.

[Deleted User 310]

Some of the things lebron "deserves" ridicule for or gets ridicule for are ridiculous and not always entirely based in verifiable fact. Lots of assumptions. Even though people inside those organizations has disputed the validity of those assumptions (made largely by keyboard warriors).

"The decision"- we never seem to care when our recruits do it. He did it for a good cause. It probably wasn't solely his decision for doing it or coming up with it. It didn't bother me at all, and why should it? Just my opinion.

"Running coaches out of town"- I am not sure how much that's actually happened other than David Blatt who was a terrible hire and didn't do a very good job as a coach (notice he hasn't landed somewhere else).

"He plays GM too much"- again, not sure how much this actually happens. Every superstar has a say in who is on their team. His teams win, so obviously his input is productive.

"He's a whiner and flops"- welcome to the modern day NBA. He is hardly the biggest whiner or the biggest flopper. Devonte Graham flops alot and we all love him. Jordan whined to refs plenty in his day as well. Its a natural occurrence in sports.

What are some of the other reasons he "deserves" ridicule that I am forgetting?

[Deleted User 310]

Nah. The premise is silly. I dont hate Kobe, magic, bird. Those were all threats way earlier than boo boo James.

First real threat. 2 of the guys you mention were out of the league before MJ really started laying claim to best ever. Hard for them to be threatening his legacy when theirs was already written.

Id take Kobe over Lebron. Kobe was cut from the same cloth as Michael. Lebrons more of something off the discount rack and Jo'anns, but with as much raw talent as anyone.

Kobe is definitely cut from the same cloth as MJ in style of play...but lebron is every bit of a hard worker and competitor as Kobe. There's no way he could do what he's done, for as long as he's done it, with some of the teams he's been on, if he wasn't.

Lebron has physical talent that's unmatched, but its far from "raw". He's 1 of the most skilled players out there. He's extremely intelligent and has an extremely high BBIQ that is absolutely comparable to Kobe and MJ. His teammates have referenced him knowing each play from every position. And its not just offensive intelligence, its also defensive intelligence.

[Deleted User 289]

Some of the things lebron "deserves" ridicule for or gets ridicule for are ridiculous and not always entirely based in verifiable fact. Lots of assumptions. Even though people inside those organizations has disputed the validity of those assumptions (made largely by keyboard warriors).

"The decision"- we never seem to care when our recruits do it. He did it for a good cause. It probably wasn't solely his decision for doing it or coming up with it. It didn't bother me at all, and why should it? Just my opinion.

"Running coaches out of town"- I am not sure how much that's actually happened other than David Blatt who was a terrible hire and didn't do a very good job as a coach (notice he hasn't landed somewhere else).

"He plays GM too much"- again, not sure how much this actually happens. Every superstar has a say in who is on their team. His teams win, so obviously his input is productive.

"He's a whiner and flops"- welcome to the modern day NBA. He is hardly the biggest whiner or the biggest flopper. Devonte Graham flops alot and we all love him. Jordan whined to refs plenty in his day as well. Its a natural occurrence in sports.

What are some of the other reasons he "deserves" ridicule that I am forgetting?

Before I get to the other reasons, I am going to say I feel Dave Blatt was just fine as a head coach. Remember, there are guys such as Jerry Sloan, George Karl, Don Nelson who had two hall of famers playing for them at the same time and didn't win a championship.

Some reasons off the top of my head (that you didn't mention) why people feel LeBron deserves ridicule.

* Criticized Daryl Morey's Hong Kong Tweet and supported China.
* Said he would never wear 23 out of respect to Jordan. Said other players shouldn't wear it. What number is he wearing now?
* Jordan Crawford dunking on him video fiasco.
* Makes games about him and not his team. I have mentioned that he is a sideshow. Watch him do his attention grabbing dancing while his teammates are playing on the floor. He's disinterested.
* He quit in a playoff game way before the game was over. Twice. Against the Pacers and against the Celtics.

[Deleted User 310]

Some of the things lebron "deserves" ridicule for or gets ridicule for are ridiculous and not always entirely based in verifiable fact. Lots of assumptions. Even though people inside those organizations has disputed the validity of those assumptions (made largely by keyboard warriors).

"The decision"- we never seem to care when our recruits do it. He did it for a good cause. It probably wasn't solely his decision for doing it or coming up with it. It didn't bother me at all, and why should it? Just my opinion.

"Running coaches out of town"- I am not sure how much that's actually happened other than David Blatt who was a terrible hire and didn't do a very good job as a coach (notice he hasn't landed somewhere else).

"He plays GM too much"- again, not sure how much this actually happens. Every superstar has a say in who is on their team. His teams win, so obviously his input is productive.

"He's a whiner and flops"- welcome to the modern day NBA. He is hardly the biggest whiner or the biggest flopper. Devonte Graham flops alot and we all love him. Jordan whined to refs plenty in his day as well. Its a natural occurrence in sports.

What are some of the other reasons he "deserves" ridicule that I am forgetting?

Before I get to the other reasons, I am going to say I feel Dave Blatt was just fine as a head coach. Remember, there are guys such as Jerry Sloan, George Karl, Don Nelson who had two hall of famers playing for them at the same time and didn't win a championship.

Some reasons off the top of my head (that you didn't mention) why people feel LeBron deserves ridicule.

* Criticized Daryl Morey's Hong Kong Tweet and supported China.
* Said he would never wear 23 out of respect to Jordan. Said other players shouldn't wear it. What number is he wearing now?
* Jordan Crawford dunking on him video fiasco.
* Makes games about him and not his team. I have mentioned that he is a sideshow. Watch him do his attention grabbing dancing while his teammates are playing on the floor. He's disinterested.
* He quit in a playoff game way before the game was over. Twice. Against the Pacers and against the Celtics.

David Blatt hasn't proved to be a good or even mediocre coach on the nba level ever. It isn't realistic to mention him in the same breath as the coaches you referenced.


The rest of your reasons for ridicule are valid, other than the "he makes games about him and not his team" imo. although its totally subjective, so I can't/won't say you're definitively wrong for feeling that way.

Although the number thing is stupid (imo). I didn't remember him saying he's the only 1 that should be allowed to wear 23 tbh, but I trust that if you say it happened then it happened. He has worn 23, then 6, now 23 again iirc.

[Deleted User 289]

MJ may not be the "GOAT" but if you watched The Last Dance tonight you would have heard David Stern and others explain why MJ was so important to the NBA.
He was so much more than what he did during games.
He will always be more iconic than anyone else who played the game before him - and so far, after him.

[Deleted User 310]

MJ is the GOAT.

Transformed the game in more ways than 1. Became a global icon before social media and sports coverage/exposure as we know it today.

I think I've said this, but the only thing close to the impact he had on the NBA is Tiger Woods impact on the PGA Tour.

What an incredible documentary they put together. And the timing of it was a much needed break from reality.

[Cascadia]

MJ is the GOAT.

Transformed the game in more ways than 1. Became a global icon before social media and sports coverage/exposure as we know it today.

I think I've said this, but the only thing close to the impact he had on the NBA is Tiger Woods impact on the PGA Tour.

What an incredible documentary they put together. And the timing of it was a much needed break from reality.

Great. Now please shut the fuck up with all this ‘LeBron is the GOAT’ talk. Take ND’s dumbass with you on the way out the door.

[Deleted User 310]

MJ is the GOAT.

Transformed the game in more ways than 1. Became a global icon before social media and sports coverage/exposure as we know it today.

I think I've said this, but the only thing close to the impact he had on the NBA is Tiger Woods impact on the PGA Tour.

What an incredible documentary they put together. And the timing of it was a much needed break from reality.

Great. Now please shut the fuck up with all this ‘LeBron is the GOAT’ talk. Take ND’s dumbass with you on the way out the door.

Except there never was any lebron is the goat talk from me. Only lebron is hated for stupid reasons talk.

[pdub]

Cascadia sure is triggered.

[PhDhawk]

Cascadia sure is triggered.

He would take a bullet for Jordan.

[pdub]

Jordan wouldn't need him to - the bullet would just bounce off.

[NDballer13]

People will argue who/what is/was the greatest about pretty much anything and everything. Who am I to say - other than to give my opinion?
I don't have "fact" that can be argued. Neither does anyone else.
To me, Kobe was the original "threat" to the imaginary throne that Michael Jordan was bestowed - based on people's opinions. Now LeBron is. That's fine.
I had plenty of athletes growing up who were may favorites - who were not the "kings" of their sports.
It's never been a contest to me.

I have no problem with people who believe MJ is the GOAT. Like you said, it's an opinion. Everyone has one, including me. I'm not trying to convince people mine is right and theirs is wrong. If you can have the conversation/debate with someone using reason who can actually understand their is a debate to be had, that makes it much easier. Thing is there's too many people like Cascadia with their "I hate LeBron because the decision so he'll never be as good" or the simple "6 rings. 6 for 6. SIX!!!" responders who have nothing logical to say.

[Cascadia]

I don’t hate LeBron, so that’s a major flaw in your argument.

I do think he’s a massive douche though.
I also think he’s as fake as they get.
I also think he’s much closer to #10 than #2

But, I don’t ‘hate’ the guy. That’s just some weird childish shit you guys attribute to people who disagree with you.

[NDballer13]

Maybe you don't 'hate' him, but go into any comments section on Facebook or Twitter under a post comparing the two. You'll quickly see it's a very real thing. Unless there's another reason for constantly being called LeBitch, LeFlop, LeQueen, etc.

You admit to thinking he's a massive douche. For what? The Decision? Jumping from team to team? You may not use the word hate, but how many people do you think are massive douches while also not disliking them? That tends to imply you're closer to the 'hate' him side of things than you say you are.

You think he's closer to 10 than 2. That's an opinion I mentioned I can respect while disagreeing with it.

Honest question. What are your thoughts on MJ saying he would resign if they brought back the entire core of the team? Then when they said that wouldn't happen, but we still want you - he walks away?

[pdub]

Also ( regarding top 10 ) :

[PhDhawk]

Kinda cool video if you have the time.

[Deleted User 310]

There is absolutely no reasonable justification for lebron being closer to 10 than 2.

Wilt is the only relatively reasonable option to be ahead of him, and if you put him ahead of lebron then he'd have to be ahead of MJ too if you are holding them both to the same standard and criteria.

[Deleted User 310]

One of the the GOAT basketball movies of all time is on right now....He Got Game. Denzel and Ray. Love this movie.

[Deleted User 310]

Lebron talking about meeting MJ for the first time.

#blackjesus