#reallynotreally
My brother was an MPD cop for ten years. He's walked the beat in question. He tends to view these things from the LEO perspective (which makes sense).DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 8:45 pmtwocoach wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 7:12 pm
No, you said "he was taught to do something similar but not taught well enough, which means that his department put him in a bad position and IT bears the brunt of the responsibility."
That's a statement about how he was trained, not a question about how he was trained. Those are two totally different things.
And thanks for the link to the five year old report. Really seems to have made a big difference in things since then....
Will you do me a favor? Explain the differences, in this context, between saying that he was trained to do something and asking if he was trained to something? You seem to think that holds the key to deciphering my position on this whole matter, and I think it's a distinction without a difference. So would you be kind enough to explain the critical difference, keeping in mind the fact that I know, for a fact, that in that situation, the appropriate restraint technique is to put the suspect on his stomach, hands behind his back, facing away from you, with the back knee essentially in his ear?
I'm curious not just what you think the difference is but also why it matters.
So is Mitch McConnell.
Supposedly not him.
I think the points DC make are good ones that tie the department's ass in a civil suit and are not defending the LEO here.TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:09 am there is video of when he was removed from his car...not any appearance of resistance
It's not.
Having lived in the Washington, DC area, for some years, I recognize your INSIDE THE BELTWAY mentality that believes that it should take more than 30 minutes out of the training you outlined above to explain, "Don't Kneel On a Suspect's Neck" and "If He Says He Can't Breath and Is Moving Less, Check To See If He's Dying." But knowing your Washington lobbyist mentality, you're figuring that this requires handing out some DOJ contract for millions of dollars to some Republican oriented K Street group you favor. At a time when the actual police are getting wages cut and laid off because of COVID-19.DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 6:19 pmCops used to spend their time blaming everything on prosecutors and judges and paying no attention to training or rules. Now, citizens just upload the video and it's on the 6 o'clock news....seahawk wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 5:51 pmHave you seen video of him resisting, DC? Because unless you have, you have no idea whether he resisted or not. I'll quote someone that was a prosecutor and a judge for 35 years, "The cops always say he resisted, no matter what."DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 11:48 am
First, neither of us knows exactly what transpired before the video. We know he resisted, and we know he was big guy, which means that if he was still struggling, even cuffed he could have been potentially dangerous. In that situation, the cop would have been taught to do (almost) exactly what he did: make the guy face away from him and apply pressure until he complies. As I said, the knee should have been on the head, not the neck, for two reasons: it hurts more and it avoids the possibility of what happened.
MOST LEOS are so poorly trained in this stuff that it's frankly surprising we don't see more incidents like this.
And poorly trained, that is a lame excuse, even for you. It's not about training, brutal and racist cops just haven't caught up with the times and realized that all God's children got a cell phone and that when they see the police murdering people on the street, they pull them out and video stuff. Cops used to spend their time blaming everything on prosecutors and judges and paying no attention to training or rules. Now, citizens just upload the video and it's on the 6 o'clock news.
Oh, and DC, I've worked with good cops and know that they know the difference between brutal, murderous behavior and their average arrests. You insult all the decent police with your defense of these guys.
You insult all the decent police....
Life comes at you fast?
nah, but you went ahead and mentioned it, hoping...
Starts at §609.18ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:33 am this is half tangential, but hopefully somebody who made it further in law school than I could clarify:
the difference between a murder 1 and murder 2 charge is, malice aforethought, right? As in, murder 2 is "spur of the moment" and murder 1 possesses some element of premeditation.
IIRC "premeditation" can be as simple as a chance to stop and second guess the situation, right? (ugh I wish I was phrasing that better).
Could a prosecutor argue that, during the course of the confrontation, the cop had a chance to stop and think, "man, my knee is on his neck and he's crying he can't breathe...now he's not even responsive!...but better just double down on the knee pressure," and frame it as some sort of premeditation?
what's the threshold for "spur of the moment" to become "malice aforethought?"
