The Worst People in the World...

[CrimsonNBlue]

I think the prosecutor may actually get a pretty favorable jury pool in Minny (it's not the south), but you never really know until it's all over.

For KC people...trial will be in [Jackson County]. Much better spot (for the prosecutors) than [Johnson] or [Platte].

How big is Hennepin County? Does it pull from rural?

Jackson County can get rural voters up north, but it doesn't outweigh the city.

[jfish26]

I guess I don't see this report as all that helpful.

Seems like it's ready-made for a prosecutor to identify where in the tape he goes unresponsive, set a timer to when the knee comes off, and ask the jury to try to hold their breath.

I don't see that as relevant/admissible for the factual causation element, but perhaps for the depraved mind element(s). I think DC is trying to say the ME will hurt the causation element.

I agree, and was surprised that Fish, (seemed originally), not to agree.

I spent several years evaluating medical records for attorneys for potential med mal cases, and the last paragraph seems designed to facilitate the creation of doubt.

Of course it supports the argument.

And of course the defense should make the argument.

I'm just saying it's a gross-ass fucking argument.

I get why it needs to be made, both in this case and in the criminal justice macro sense.

It's just fucking gross.

[CrimsonNBlue]

In fact, in real life, you don't have to deprive a guy with hypertensive heart disease of oxygen for long before you effectively kill him.


And along those lines, I still want to know what happened that he ended up on the ground, already cuffed, with three guys on him -- because the reports say he was telling officers he couldn't breathe before the original video.

Posted this right before your post. Helps explain SOME things to SOME degree. https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05/29/ ... t-minutes/

If I read this right, a cop checked his pulse at 8:24:24 and could not find a pulse and Defendant didn't remove his leg from neck until 8:27:24. That's infuriating.

[jfish26]

I think the prosecutor may actually get a pretty favorable jury pool in Minny (it's not the south), but you never really know until it's all over.

For KC people...trial will be in [Jackson County]. Much better spot (for the prosecutors) than [Johnson] or [Platte].

How big is Hennepin County? Does it pull from rural?

Jackson County can get rural voters up north, but it doesn't outweigh the city.

Not much at all. Some blue collar to the northwest, but you're still in suburbs.

You might have some traction with the MAGAtonka-types.

[Shirley]

I don't see that as relevant/admissible for the factual causation element, but perhaps for the depraved mind element(s). I think DC is trying to say the ME will hurt the causation element.

I agree, and was surprised that Fish, (seemed originally), not to agree.

I spent several years evaluating medical records for attorneys for potential med mal cases, and the last paragraph seems designed to facilitate the creation of doubt.

Of course it supports the argument.

And of course the defense should make the argument.

I'm just saying it's a gross-ass fucking argument.

I get why it needs to be made, both in this case and in the criminal justice macro sense.

It's just fucking gross.

I was confused by this, your response to the ME report:

I guess I don't see this report as all that helpful.

Seems like it's ready-made for a prosecutor to identify where in the tape he goes unresponsive, set a timer to when the knee comes off, and ask the jury to try to hold their breath.

[jfish26]

I agree, and was surprised that Fish, (seemed originally), not to agree.

I spent several years evaluating medical records for attorneys for potential med mal cases, and the last paragraph seems designed to facilitate the creation of doubt.

Of course it supports the argument.

And of course the defense should make the argument.

I'm just saying it's a gross-ass fucking argument.

I get why it needs to be made, both in this case and in the criminal justice macro sense.

It's just fucking gross.

I was confused by this, your response to the ME report:

I guess I don't see this report as all that helpful.

Seems like it's ready-made for a prosecutor to identify where in the tape he goes unresponsive, set a timer to when the knee comes off, and ask the jury to try to hold their breath.

Ah - no, I don't find the evidence to be very strong (in the defense's favor). But it's evidence.

[CrimsonNBlue]

For KC people...trial will be in [Jackson County]. Much better spot (for the prosecutors) than [Johnson] or [Platte].

How big is Hennepin County? Does it pull from rural?

Jackson County can get rural voters up north, but it doesn't outweigh the city.

Not much at all. Some blue collar to the northwest, but you're still in suburbs.

You might have some traction with the MAGAtonka-types.

And I would doubt Hennepin suburbs are the same as the Kobach Johnson County burbs.

[jfish26]

Well...definitely a lot of that toward Lake Minnetonka/Wayzata/Edina.

[DCHawk1]

In fact, in real life, you don't have to deprive a guy with hypertensive heart disease of oxygen for long before you effectively kill him.


And along those lines, I still want to know what happened that he ended up on the ground, already cuffed, with three guys on him -- because the reports say he was telling officers he couldn't breathe before the original video.

Posted this right before your post. Helps explain SOME things to SOME degree. https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05/29/ ... t-minutes/

Two things:

1. a counterfeit $20 bill

My God.

2. Mr. Floyd stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic....The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad 320 from the driver’s side. Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still....While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe. The defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and Kueng assisted."

Seahawk said the other day that prosecutors will tell you that every LEO says "he resisted." This is probably true. But LEOs will tell you that every handcuffed subject will tell you "I can't breathe."

Again, I'm not saying that this should be a legitimate defense, only that they will use it. "Every subject says 'I can't breathe.' And Mr. Floyd had already said he was claustrophobic and couldn't breathe, so there was no way the officer could know that he really was in respiratory distress."

[pdub]

Charged.
Murder 3.
Manslaughter.

[DCHawk1]

You take a nap?

[Deleted User 89]

fashionably late

[Geezer]

Eric Garner said "I can't breathe."

[CrimsonNBlue]

In fact, in real life, you don't have to deprive a guy with hypertensive heart disease of oxygen for long before you effectively kill him.


And along those lines, I still want to know what happened that he ended up on the ground, already cuffed, with three guys on him -- because the reports say he was telling officers he couldn't breathe before the original video.

Posted this right before your post. Helps explain SOME things to SOME degree. https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05/29/ ... t-minutes/

Two things:

1. a counterfeit $20 bill

My God.

2. Mr. Floyd stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic....The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad 320 from the driver’s side. Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still....While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe. The defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and Kueng assisted."

Seahawk said the other day that prosecutors will tell you that every LEO says "he resisted." This is probably true. But LEOs will tell you that every handcuffed subject will tell you "I can't breathe."

Again, I'm not saying that this should be a legitimate defense, only that they will use it. "Every subject says 'I can't breathe.' And Mr. Floyd had already said he was claustrophobic and couldn't breathe, so there was no way the officer could know that he really was in respiratory distress."

Ugh. Protect and Serve.

[pdub]

I'm not reading this site 24-7...didn't see it posted, figured the third degree was a possible charge.

So he was fired and charged.
So far, the correct steps have been made for punishing this man.

[Deleted User 318]

You take a nap?

Not Nice.

[DCHawk1]

Eric Garner said "I can't breathe."

Yes.

This then becomes the question of modern policing. What are police for?

Protect property and lives?

Failed on both counts in Minneapolis. Over a phony $20 bill.

Failed in NY. Over 1 fucking cigarette.

[pdub]

You take a nap?

Not Nice.

Could be nice.
Or at least neutral if he was genuinely asking.

[Deleted User 89]

wear a hoodie and eat skittles...

go for a jog...

sell cigarette singles...

try to use a fake $20...

i know there’s more. what else am i forgetting?

[ousdahl]

Eat ice cream in your own apartment