George Floyd and the Ensuing Protests

[Shirley]

Short version:



Longer version:


Trevor shares his thoughts on the killing of George Floyd, the protests in Minneapolis, the dominos of racial injustice and police brutality, and how the contract between society and black Americans has been broken time and time again.

[twocoach]

So when they try to lock the country back down after covid cases spike in a couple weeks, hows that gonna go? Brakes are off the car, buckle up.

Tell all the armed white people who protested by screaming unmasked into the faces of first responders and police officers to resume that activity but to ask the cops to stop killing people who shouldnt be killed.

[Deleted User 289]

Thanks.

If I could delete the original post, I would.

Hey - As far as I am concerned you did nothing wrong. You posted something that was definitely worthy of being posted.
I would have assumed it was "true" too but as I said, I am not believing most of what I see/hear/read on social media so I was skeptical.
Everyone pushes their "agenda".
I have an old friend who lives in L.A. who recently got married and her husband has brainwashed her to the point where he will not allow her to be friends (both on and OFF social media) with anyone he considers to be "leftist". She is actually allowing him to do it. My attitude is how sad is that - and fuck the both of them.

[twocoach]

[ousdahl]

^^^^
dang!

Wisdom? Empathy? Vision? Inspiration? A sense of something bigger than oneself? No personal attacks or name calling? Proper grammar?!

I miss presidents who act presidential.

[Deleted User 289]

This from someone I have known for 53 years who is a gay, deaf, jewish, white, man.
One of the kindest if not the kindest person I know. POC = People Of Color.

Okay, here goes.....should we be openly celebrating LGBT Pride month (June) while our POC community has been so adversely affected?
This morning I went outside to hang up our Rainbow flag and felt such a pang of sadness that made me think twice of whether the flag should be out there or be replaced with something more reflective of what's happening now? Thoughts?

These are some of the responses - so far.....

Why not both? We have been warned to take down rainbow and BLM signage due to risk of being targeted by the white supremacists currently in town. Which frankly pisses me off. (We’ve been leaving our BLM sign out during the day but then bringing in at night, but seems we now need to check around for incendiaries stashed on our property, sigh.)

You could display one of the LGBTQ+ flags that specifically includes colors indicating racial diversity. There are two that I have seen - the Philadelphia People of Color flag and the Pride Progress flag.
Personally, I haven't felt safe flying a pride flag since the bloated tangerine was elected, but I live out the suburbs in a district that is almost always red.

Imagine what it would be like if your skin were dark. You can’t put away your skin. I figure the more visible signs of support we have out, the better it is for those who cannot “put away” their identity during the day. At night they are hopefully home and in bed, so not visible.

“Celebrating” is probably the wrong word, but my answer is YES: we SHOULD be reflecting, honoring the struggles of the LGBTQ+ people who came before us, and this year especially, posting as many pictures of LGBTQ+ people of color as we can. Particularly, we should be reminding everyone we can that Pride month was born of a riot; a riot in which a mixed group of LGBTQ+ people of color and others, protested police overreach and brutality, and that ultimately, #LOVEWINS

My dear wonderful friend. My thought is combine them! Make a statement coming from the LGBTQ community that you support and stand in unity with the black community. Show that you support all people, regardless of religion, sexual preference, race, disabilities.... you are just the right person to make the difference!

[DCHawk1]

Short version:

There's much that he says that is worth hearing, but this stuck out:

"Yeah, but what do you get from NOT looting Target?"

That's...uh...nuts. A moral code is a moral code whether "the leaders" are moral or not. If you allow your moral behavior to be defined by the behavior of the ruling class, then you will never, ever have anything approaching civil society -- because you'll never, ever have a non-corrupt ruling class.

Also, he misunderstands the American interpretation of the social contract.

[Shirley]

^^^^
dang!

Wisdom? Empathy? Vision? Inspiration? A sense of something bigger than oneself? No personal attacks or name calling? Proper grammar?!

I miss presidents who act presidential.

^^^

Thanks for sharing it twocoach.

[seahawk]

Just remember that when poor people loot from Target, that's bad. But when the top corporations with access to capital loot $300 million from the COVID-19 bailout funds for mom and pop businesses...well, that's different.

[PhDhawk]

Short version:

There's much that he says that is worth hearing, but this stuck out:

"Yeah, but what do you get from NOT looting Target?"

That's...uh...nuts. A moral code is a moral code whether "the leaders" are moral or not. If you allow your moral behavior to be defined by the behavior of the ruling class, then you will never, ever have anything approaching civil society -- because you'll never, ever have a non-corrupt ruling class.

Also, he misunderstands the American interpretation of the social contract.

I think he makes a good point in that it's important to understand WHY that's happening. Empathy is a big part of the path forward.

But, I agree with you in that what Noah is missing, is that he thinks NOT looting Target won't get anything done. I think that what made the acts of people like Gandhi, MLK, Nelson Mandella, Jackie Robinson, etc. so inspirational and so great and so lasting was that they stood up to injustice without letting their anger turn destructive. They didn't stoop to the level of the people that they were fighting against.

[sdoyel]

Bubbas will do anything. Literally anything for their cult:

[Shirley]

Short version:

There's much that he says that is worth hearing, but this stuck out:

"Yeah, but what do you get from NOT looting Target?"

That's...uh...nuts. A moral code is a moral code whether "the leaders" are moral or not. If you allow your moral behavior to be defined by the behavior of the ruling class, then you will never, ever have anything approaching civil society -- because you'll never, ever have a non-corrupt ruling class.

Also, he misunderstands the American interpretation of the social contract.

I think he makes a good point in that it's important to understand WHY that's happening. Empathy is a big part of the path forward.

But, I agree with you in that what Noah is missing, is that he thinks NOT looting Target won't get anything done. I think that what made the acts of people like Gandhi, MLK, Nelson Mandella, Jackie Robinson, etc. so inspirational and so great and so lasting was that they stood up to injustice without letting their anger turn destructive. They didn't stoop to the level of the people that they were fighting against.

(I hadn't seen the long version of Trevor Noah's talk when I posted it, but have now and it's worth the time, imo.)

My guess is that Trevor would repeat the question, how has adhering to the "social contract", (by following the rules, i.e., not looting Target), worked out for Blacks when in just the last ~ 10 days(?) you've seen the White woman in central park weaponize her Whiteness falsely against a Black man; the way the White father and son were going to avoid any retribution for killing Black Ahmaud Arbery until a video was found, and now, to watch a Black man have the life choked out of him live on camera, by a law enforcement official who knew he was being taped, most likely because he knew from experience he could get away with it. (I don't think he was trying to kill Floyd, but still, ~ 9 minutes?)

[DCHawk1]

Just remember that when poor people loot from Target, that's bad. But when the top corporations with access to capital loot $300 million from the COVID-19 bailout funds for mom and pop businesses...well, that's different.

Just remember who was bitching about just that iss...

...Oh never mind....

[PhDhawk]

There's much that he says that is worth hearing, but this stuck out:

"Yeah, but what do you get from NOT looting Target?"

That's...uh...nuts. A moral code is a moral code whether "the leaders" are moral or not. If you allow your moral behavior to be defined by the behavior of the ruling class, then you will never, ever have anything approaching civil society -- because you'll never, ever have a non-corrupt ruling class.

Also, he misunderstands the American interpretation of the social contract.

I think he makes a good point in that it's important to understand WHY that's happening. Empathy is a big part of the path forward.

But, I agree with you in that what Noah is missing, is that he thinks NOT looting Target won't get anything done. I think that what made the acts of people like Gandhi, MLK, Nelson Mandella, Jackie Robinson, etc. so inspirational and so great and so lasting was that they stood up to injustice without letting their anger turn destructive. They didn't stoop to the level of the people that they were fighting against.

(I hadn't seen the long version of Trevor Noah's talk when I posted it, but have now and it's worth the time, imo.)

My guess is that Trevor would repeat the question, how has adhering to the "social contract", (by following the rules, i.e., not looting Target), worked out for Blacks when in just the last ~ 10 days(?) you've seen the White woman in central park weaponize her Whiteness falsely against a Black man; the way the White father and son were going to avoid any retribution for killing Black Ahmaud Arbery until a video was found, and now, to watch a Black man have the life choked out of him live on camera, by a law enforcement official who knew he was being taped, most likely because he knew from experience he could get away with it. (I don't think he was trying to kill Floyd, but still, ~ 9 minutes?)

I don't think there's a perfect response, or at least I don't have one. But I will say, I think Christian Cooper's response was a better one than burning a car. Now, he didn't lose his life like the others, so maybe it's easier in that sense. But ultimately, I think that's a better path to where we want to be as a society.

[TDub]

So when they try to lock the country back down after covid cases spike in a couple weeks, hows that gonna go? Brakes are off the car, buckle up.

Tell all the armed white people who protested by screaming unmasked into the faces of first responders and police officers to resume that activity but to ask the cops to stop killing people who shouldnt be killed.

Youre a fucking moron. Wasnt asking you, you fell off the ship sometime yesterday evening.

[HouseDivided]

So when they try to lock the country back down after covid cases spike in a couple weeks, hows that gonna go? Brakes are off the car, buckle up.

Tell all the armed white people who protested by screaming unmasked into the faces of first responders and police officers to resume that activity but to ask the cops to stop killing people who shouldnt be killed.

Youre a fucking moron. Wasnt asking you, you fell off the ship sometime yesterday evening.

They will not be able to pull off another lockdown without military intervention. People have been pushed past their limits economically, emotionally, and psychologically. If you want to see rioting in the streets, go ahead and tell people to go home for round two of this idiocy.

[Deleted User 318]

So when they try to lock the country back down after covid cases spike in a couple weeks, hows that gonna go? Brakes are off the car, buckle up.

Tell all the armed white people who protested by screaming unmasked into the faces of first responders and police officers to resume that activity but to ask the cops to stop killing people who shouldnt be killed.

Youre a fucking moron. Wasnt asking you, you fell off the ship sometime yesterday evening.

Not Nice.

[DCHawk1]

There's much that he says that is worth hearing, but this stuck out:

"Yeah, but what do you get from NOT looting Target?"

That's...uh...nuts. A moral code is a moral code whether "the leaders" are moral or not. If you allow your moral behavior to be defined by the behavior of the ruling class, then you will never, ever have anything approaching civil society -- because you'll never, ever have a non-corrupt ruling class.

Also, he misunderstands the American interpretation of the social contract.

I think he makes a good point in that it's important to understand WHY that's happening. Empathy is a big part of the path forward.

But, I agree with you in that what Noah is missing, is that he thinks NOT looting Target won't get anything done. I think that what made the acts of people like Gandhi, MLK, Nelson Mandella, Jackie Robinson, etc. so inspirational and so great and so lasting was that they stood up to injustice without letting their anger turn destructive. They didn't stoop to the level of the people that they were fighting against.

(I hadn't seen the long version of Trevor Noah's talk when I posted it, but have now and it's worth the time, imo.)

My guess is that Trevor would repeat the question, how has adhering to the "social contract", (by following the rules, i.e., not looting Target), worked out for Blacks when in just the last ~ 10 days(?) you've seen the White woman in central park weaponize her Whiteness falsely against a Black man; the way the White father and son were going to avoid any retribution for killing Black Ahmaud Arbery until a video was found, and now, to watch a Black man have the life choked out of him live on camera, by a law enforcement official who knew he was being taped, most likely because he knew from experience he could get away with it. (I don't think he was trying to kill Floyd, but still, ~ 9 minutes?)

OK. But that's not really an argument. That's a reaction -- and understandable one, to be sure.

This is why twocoach's blather drove me nuts over the weekend. If we allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good, then we're in for a long, hard slog. Yes, it's shocking and horrifying and maddening to see police kill an unarmed, subdued man -- and a black man in particular. And yes, we should do everything in our power to try to ensure that never happens again. But given that man is a fallen creature (whether you believe that religiously or not), there is NO way to guarantee it will never happen again, no matter what we do.

There is no question that the lives of black people in this country are better than they were on December 31, 1862, the day before the Emancipation Proclamation was signed. And there is no question that their lives are better than they were on July 1, 1964, the day before the Civil Rights Act was signed.

The social contract binds the sovereign and the people. But in a case in which the sovereign IS the people, then it's a self-governing contract. And we become responsible for policing ourselves. Do our leaders violate the contract? Yes. All the time. Does that mean the contract is useless? Of course not. It means the leaders are useless.

[Shirley]

I think he makes a good point in that it's important to understand WHY that's happening. Empathy is a big part of the path forward.

But, I agree with you in that what Noah is missing, is that he thinks NOT looting Target won't get anything done. I think that what made the acts of people like Gandhi, MLK, Nelson Mandella, Jackie Robinson, etc. so inspirational and so great and so lasting was that they stood up to injustice without letting their anger turn destructive. They didn't stoop to the level of the people that they were fighting against.

(I hadn't seen the long version of Trevor Noah's talk when I posted it, but have now and it's worth the time, imo.)

My guess is that Trevor would repeat the question, how has adhering to the "social contract", (by following the rules, i.e., not looting Target), worked out for Blacks when in just the last ~ 10 days(?) you've seen the White woman in central park weaponize her Whiteness falsely against a Black man; the way the White father and son were going to avoid any retribution for killing Black Ahmaud Arbery until a video was found, and now, to watch a Black man have the life choked out of him live on camera, by a law enforcement official who knew he was being taped, most likely because he knew from experience he could get away with it. (I don't think he was trying to kill Floyd, but still, ~ 9 minutes?)

I don't think there's a perfect response, or at least I don't have one. But I will say, I think Christian Cooper's response was a better one than burning a car. Now, he didn't lose his life like the others, so maybe it's easier in that sense. But ultimately, I think that's a better path to where we want to be as a society.

I'm not endorsing burning and looting, I'm jusayin' that rightly or wrongly, it shouldn't come as a surprise when already suppressed people lose hope, especially in a society as rich as ours.

45 years ago:



This morning I woke up in a curfew
O God, I was a prisoner, too - yeah!
Could not recognize the faces standing over me
They were all dressed in uniforms of brutality. Eh!

How many rivers do we have to cross
Before we can talk to the boss? Eh!
All that we got, it seems we have lost
We must have really paid the cost...

[Shirley]

Tell all the armed white people who protested by screaming unmasked into the faces of first responders and police officers to resume that activity but to ask the cops to stop killing people who shouldnt be killed.

Youre a fucking moron. Wasnt asking you, you fell off the ship sometime yesterday evening.

They will not be able to pull off another lockdown without military intervention. People have been pushed past their limits economically, emotionally, and psychologically. If you want to see rioting in the streets, go ahead and tell people to go home for round two of this idiocy.

snowflake