Dumbfuck in charge

[PhDhawk]

The low pay results in a situation where you select for bad and inexperienced cops.

If you're good at your job, you move on or get promoted. You become a detective, move to federal law enforcement, etc.

[twocoach]

the big question, at least in my mind, is how these “tough guys” are allowed to persist once they’ve established a track record of unsavory conduct

is it because they are protected by unions?

is it because their superiors covet their “abilities” too much?

once an officer has more than a dozen complaints against them, it shouldn’t be all that difficult to remove them...SHOULDN’T

and, how is it that bad cops are still allowed to be bad cops? how/why are they hired on with other departments even if they’ve got a sketchy history?

Add to that the facts that it is expensive to train a new officer and that it is not a high paying job with a long list of qualified desirable candidates beating down the door to get the job.

[twocoach]

Hearing more about Trump's meeting with state governors. Holy fuck, we have a full blown lunatic in the Oval Office. It's rare lately that Trump can stun me but he managed to do it.

[ousdahl]

[DCHawk1]

the big question, at least in my mind, is how these “tough guys” are allowed to persist once they’ve established a track record of unsavory conduct

is it because they are protected by unions?

is it because their superiors covet their “abilities” too much?

once an officer has more than a dozen complaints against them, it shouldn’t be all that difficult to remove them...SHOULDN’T

and, how is it that bad cops are still allowed to be bad cops? how/why are they hired on with other departments even if they’ve got a sketchy history?

It's not easy work. And the pay isn't great.

People talk a great deal about how teachers are underpaid, and there's some merit in that argument.

But teachers don't generally leave home every day knowing that it is, at least theoretically, possible that they won't come home that night.

ok?

all i get from that response is some sort of twisted justification that their job is hard, and life-threatening (whether that was your intent or not)

Nah. It was an explanation -- beyond unions and superiors valuing their abilities -- for why bad cops keep their jobs and can find work elsewhere.

[Deleted User 89]

ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

[DCHawk1]

ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

[Deleted User 62]

cops have a tough tough job. and yeah, many of them should prob be paid better, and enjoy a better status because of their profession. I have a lot of respect for the job they do.

but I think we can have a lot of respect, and still hold them to a high standard.

Sure, cops might leave for work every day wondering if they won't come home. But, given the hyper-alpha mentality mentioned, could it be possible that many cops leave work every day wondering if they'll get to go all "make my day" on somebody?

It might go both ways.

It definitely does.

[ousdahl]

I've shared this before, but:

walking through Lawrence one night, my buddy and I were victims of an attempted mugging. A block later, we see a cop with somebody pulled over. My (shamelessly not PC) buddy runs up and says, "hey officer! these two black dudes tried to mug us!"

The cop looks up and literally says, "well it must be this driver's lucky night, cuz busting black dudes is way more important than a DUI."

fast forward to a couple weeks later. I'm working at Johnny's, and there was this townie cop who came in to drink a lot when he was off the clock. (He was like 31yo at the time, yet proudly boasted about how he had been drinking at Johnny's for over 14 years, but I digress)

I tell him the story, and he replies with, "wow! I'm surprised any Lawrence cops would say that about black people, cuz most of the guys I work with would much rather go beat up on the drunken Indians down at Haskell..."

[Deleted User 62]

The low pay results in a situation where you select for bad and inexperienced cops.

If you're good at your job, you move on or get promoted. You become a detective, move to federal law enforcement, etc.

I am glad you pointed this out.
There is usually a significant jump in aptitude for law enforcement at the Federal level versus local or in many cases state level.law enforcement.

It is much harder to qualify....much harder to pass the training...and many, many more requirements to achieve the status.

I don't mean this statement to be bragging, but having witnessed with my own eyes unprepared and in some cases mentally unqualified people staffing law enforcement, the gap can be very wide.

[Deleted User 89]

ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

i wasn’t trying to insinuate that anyone suggested pay as the ONLY issue

i do, however, fail to see how pay helps to eliminate bad apples

if the powers that be (supervisors, unions and the like) have no desire/ability to remove bad apples, it doesn’t matter what the pay is

i’m sure this all comes off as just being argumentative...but that’s not my intent at all

[Deleted User 89]

The low pay results in a situation where you select for bad and inexperienced cops.

If you're good at your job, you move on or get promoted. You become a detective, move to federal law enforcement, etc.

I am glad you pointed this out.
There is usually a significant jump in aptitude for law enforcement at the Federal level versus local or in many cases state level.law enforcement.

It is much harder to qualify....much harder to pass the training...and many, many more requirements to achieve the status.

I don't mean this statement to be bragging, but having witnessed with my own eyes unprepared and in some cases mentally unqualified people staffing law enforcement, the gap can be very wide.

i would assume there also a commiserate increase in vetting, right?

is it easier or more difficult to fire a bad fed officer?

[Deleted User 62]

ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

I believe that police that truly want to serve and protect would appreciate more and better training almost as much as a rise in pay.

Also, union protection IS a big part of the problem. I am pro union, but my experiences with police unions has not been good.

[Deleted User 62]

The low pay results in a situation where you select for bad and inexperienced cops.

If you're good at your job, you move on or get promoted. You become a detective, move to federal law enforcement, etc.

I am glad you pointed this out.
There is usually a significant jump in aptitude for law enforcement at the Federal level versus local or in many cases state level.law enforcement.

It is much harder to qualify....much harder to pass the training...and many, many more requirements to achieve the status.

I don't mean this statement to be bragging, but having witnessed with my own eyes unprepared and in some cases mentally unqualified people staffing law enforcement, the gap can be very wide.

i would assume there also a commiserate increase in vetting, right?

is it easier or more difficult to fire a bad fed officer?

Honestly, I haven't seen many things done that would get a Marshal or FBI officer fired.
It is simply a higher level of professionalism.

[PhDhawk]

ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

i wasn’t trying to insinuate that anyone suggested pay as the ONLY issue

i do, however, fail to see how pay helps to eliminate bad apples

if the powers that be (supervisors, unions and the like) have no desire/ability to remove bad apples, it doesn’t matter what the pay is

i’m sure this all comes off as just being argumentative...but that’s not my intent at all

If you have higher retention of good cops, A) you're keeping more good, experienced cops. and B) you have better mentors/leaders/examples for the new cops.

[DCHawk1]

ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

I believe that police that truly want to serve and protect would appreciate more and better training almost as much as a rise in pay.

Also, union protection IS a big part of the problem. I am pro union, but my experiences with police unions has not been good.

I said that about training the other day and the owner of this site said I was defending killers.

[ousdahl]

You actually believe he needs training not to kill people in custody?

[twocoach]

ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

i wasn’t trying to insinuate that anyone suggested pay as the ONLY issue

i do, however, fail to see how pay helps to eliminate bad apples

if the powers that be (supervisors, unions and the like) have no desire/ability to remove bad apples, it doesn’t matter what the pay is

i’m sure this all comes off as just being argumentative...but that’s not my intent at all

You can't just fire all the bad apples if it is difficult to replace them with better choices.

[seahawk]

Unfortunately, all the training in the world and higher pay probably won't change one giant problem that police agencies face today, which is that they've become frontline mental health workers. As mental health resources and substance abuse treatment programs have been limited, cops end up having to handle these citizens and it's not an easy population to deal with and is probably the most patchwork of patchwork systems.

If you have a chronic alcoholic who is sleeping behind the WalMart in freezing weather, who doesn't do criminal stuff but law enforcement is called to see that he doesn't die, where do the cops on the beat put him? It is one area where we could work to reduce that burden on law enforcement.

[twocoach]

Number of investigations of law enforcement agencies for practices that violate the Constitution opened by the Justice Department during the first term of each President:

G.W. Bush: 12
Obama: 15



Trump: 1