The Worst People in the World...

[Walrus]

Ever since Michael Brown was shot (a ridiculous amount of times), I've thought we need a better way of stopping people when they are running away. However, if and when the suspect reaches for a police weapon (gun, taser) that is a horse of a different color. The officer's life could very well be in danger when that happens. But still, if someone is running away from you and not trying to shoot you, I think it's best to let them run, as they won't be able to hide forever. Friday's situation wasn't as simple as a guy just fleeing. I guess the main question here is, if the police pull out their gun and ask you to "freeze", is it justifiable for them to shoot you if you continue to run?

[ousdahl]

No it’s not.

Cops should have let the guy run.

Busy commercial area, they had his info, his car is still at Wendy’s, so drunk he fell asleep, how far is he gonna get?

Dude screwed up, but should still have had his day in court.

[Walrus]

In this situation, probably agree with you. However, it's not always so easy to know if the suspect has a gun. Those looters in St. Louis, one of them shot David Dorn, and I'm betting Dorn tried to stop him. You cannot predict what the person is going to do in that kind of situation, and running makes it even harder for the cops to predict what will happen. I think it's a lot easier if people just stop resisting and not run. Running is pointless anyway because they will catch the person, as you mentioned. I don't understand what the guy was thinking by running.

[ousdahl]

“Not run” is of course good advice, but also a strong indication someone grew up in a community that wasn’t afraid of cops.

[Deleted User 310]

It is too long and I don't really expect anyone to read it.
Could/should have just posted the video but felt a desire to keep myself occupied while I drank my cup of coffee this morning.

Have a lovely President Trump's birthday Sunday!

I'll respond to my parts of your response here, since the quoting is tricky on your response.

...about him being fearful as his reason for fleeing....he wasn't fearful until after he blew and they asked him to put his hands behind his back.

Up until that point when he tried to break away they were not physical with him at all. They weren't aggressive putting the cuffs on. Once he tried to break free and started fighting for their taser is when all hell breaks loose.

They still shouldn't have shot him in the back after he broke free and was running away. That use of force wasn't justified at that point in the altercation.

[Deleted User 310]

I have extensive law enforcement training.

The training regarding the use of deadly force used to be very well defined and NOT open for interpretation:

"The use of deadly force is to be considered ONLY in a situation where there is a direct and immediate threat of loss of life to the individual or to bystanders"

Used to be, if you administered lethal force outside of this definition, even if it didn't result in a loss of life, you faced charges.

Felling excited, scared or intimidated are not a direct and immediate threat. They are emotional responses.

Where does grabbing a taser from the cop fall on that spectrum? Im honestly curious, not arguing.

My county cop (rural area) cousin in law claims they are taught to respond to a taser being pointed at them with lethal force because "they could incapacitate the officer and take their gun and kill them".....i think that's total bullshit in this instance, even if true, because they taser being fired at him didnt strike him and he also had a 2nd officer with him....plus, he shoots him in the back AFTER he's already turned back around while running AWAY.

[Deleted User 289]

It is too long and I don't really expect anyone to read it.
Could/should have just posted the video but felt a desire to keep myself occupied while I drank my cup of coffee this morning.

Have a lovely President Trump's birthday Sunday!

I'll respond to my parts of your response here, since the quoting is tricky on your response.

...about him being fearful as his reason for fleeing....he wasn't fearful until after he blew and they asked him to put his hands behind his back.

Up until that point when he tried to break away they were not physical with him at all. They weren't aggressive putting the cuffs on. Once he tried to break free and started fighting for their taser is when all hell breaks loose.

They still shouldn't have shot him in the back after he broke free and was running away. That use of force wasn't justified at that point in the altercation.

Thanks for your response/s.

SEEMS and APPEARED are not definitive words. That's why I am going to use them.
We don't know at what point he was fearful . He appeared not to be fearful until they tried to put the cuffs on him but for all we know he may have shit/pissed his pants in fear when they knocked on his car window. Seems something about being cuffed set him off.

I agree they were not "physical" with him until they tried to cuff him and he resisted.
From what I have seen and assuming they were using proper protocol, I don't fault the cops for anything up until that point.

I agree they shouldn't have shot him in the back and as I alluded to in one of my other posts, there were too many people around (including kids) who I felt the cops possibly put in harms way.

[Deleted User 310]

It is too long and I don't really expect anyone to read it.
Could/should have just posted the video but felt a desire to keep myself occupied while I drank my cup of coffee this morning.

Have a lovely President Trump's birthday Sunday!

I'll respond to my parts of your response here, since the quoting is tricky on your response.

...about him being fearful as his reason for fleeing....he wasn't fearful until after he blew and they asked him to put his hands behind his back.

Up until that point when he tried to break away they were not physical with him at all. They weren't aggressive putting the cuffs on. Once he tried to break free and started fighting for their taser is when all hell breaks loose.

They still shouldn't have shot him in the back after he broke free and was running away. That use of force wasn't justified at that point in the altercation.

Thanks for your response/s.

SEEMS and APPEARED are not definitive words. That's why I am going to use them.
We don't know at what point he was fearful . He appeared not to be fearful until they tried to put the cuffs on him but for all we know he may have shit/pissed his pants in fear when they knocked on his car window. Seems something about being cuffed set him off.

I agree they were not "physical" with him until they tried to cuff him and he resisted.
From what I have seen and assuming they were using proper protocol, I don't fault the cops for anything up until that point.

I agree they shouldn't have shot him in the back and as I alluded to in one of my other posts, there were too many people around (including kids) who I felt the cops possibly put in harms way.

2 disturbing facts:

-they talked to him for almost 20min before this happened.

-they put gloves on and picked up shell casings before checking on him....some think they picked up the casings so that they couldn't as easily determine how far away they were from the suspect when they shot him.

[Deleted User 310]

[Deleted User 62]

I have extensive law enforcement training.

The training regarding the use of deadly force used to be very well defined and NOT open for interpretation:

"The use of deadly force is to be considered ONLY in a situation where there is a direct and immediate threat of loss of life to the individual or to bystanders"

Used to be, if you administered lethal force outside of this definition, even if it didn't result in a loss of life, you faced charges.

Felling excited, scared or intimidated are not a direct and immediate threat. They are emotional responses.

Where does grabbing a taser from the cop fall on that spectrum? Im honestly curious, not arguing.

I guess you should look at it from the perspective of being the guy that is terrified, fearful for his own life, or maybe fighting back.

I would also point out that law enforcement training involves weapon removal and retention.

Did this cop miss out on this training?

[TDub]

I have extensive law enforcement training.

The training regarding the use of deadly force used to be very well defined and NOT open for interpretation:

"The use of deadly force is to be considered ONLY in a situation where there is a direct and immediate threat of loss of life to the individual or to bystanders"

Used to be, if you administered lethal force outside of this definition, even if it didn't result in a loss of life, you faced charges.

Felling excited, scared or intimidated are not a direct and immediate threat. They are emotional responses.

Where does grabbing a taser from the cop fall on that spectrum? Im honestly curious, not arguing.

I guess you should look at it from the perspective of being the guy that is terrified, fearful for his own life, or maybe fighting back.

I would also point out that law enforcement training involves weapon removal and retention.

Did this cop miss out on this training?

Fair enough, i was genuinely curious from your perspective as somelne who has been trained for situations such as this.

[ousdahl]

yeah, cops seemed sloppy in how they handled it. Dude should have never come close to being able to grab the taser either way.

Illy mentions they picked up shell casings to make it more difficult to determine how far away they were when they shot him. This also once again shows what little regard they have for the dude’s life. Rather than even think about first aid (or even detaining/further neutralizing the threat) cops just let another black man die on the ground.

[Deleted User 310]

[Deleted User 62]

Where does grabbing a taser from the cop fall on that spectrum? Im honestly curious, not arguing.

I guess you should look at it from the perspective of being the guy that is terrified, fearful for his own life, or maybe fighting back.

I would also point out that law enforcement training involves weapon removal and retention.

Did this cop miss out on this training?

Fair enough, i was genuinely curious from your perspective as somelne who has been trained for situations such as this.

Here is my take.

He wasn't endangering anyone, before or during the tussle.

May have been inebriated or high, may also have been suffering a diabetic or mental event.

He broke loose and ran. Let him fucking run. You have his car and his license. Arrest him safely tomorrow.

What I saw was an attempted arrest that turned into a successful murder.

[Deleted User 62]

yeah, cops seemed sloppy in how they handled it. Dude should have never come close to being able to grab the taser either way.

Illy mentions they picked up shell casings to make it more difficult to determine how far away they were when they shot him. This also once again shows what little regard they have for the dude’s life. Rather than even think about first aid (or even detaining/further neutralizing the threat) cops just let another black man die on the ground.

It also is representative of the fact that a police who commits this type of crime is within his senses to immediately tamper with evidence.

[Deleted User 310]

I guess you should look at it from the perspective of being the guy that is terrified, fearful for his own life, or maybe fighting back.

I would also point out that law enforcement training involves weapon removal and retention.

Did this cop miss out on this training?

Fair enough, i was genuinely curious from your perspective as somelne who has been trained for situations such as this.

Here is my take.

He wasn't endangering anyone, before or during the tussle.

May have been inebriated or high, may also have been suffering a diabetic or mental event.

He broke loose and ran. Let him fucking run. You have his car and his license. Arrest him safely tomorrow.

What I saw was an attempted arrest that turned into a successful murder.

I agree with everything you said except DURING the tussle. He could have just as easily been going for the gun imo. So had they shot him at that moment then I would have agreed that they logically felt their lives were in immediate danger.

[ChalkRocker]

they didn't, larryb.

[Mjl]

they didn't, larryb.

Oooh, that's whose sock this version of Illy is? I could see that. I've been pretty sure it's not the usual Illy.

[Deleted User 310]

There is only 1 me. Unless the conspiracy theory still exists that I'm gutter?

[Mjl]

There is only 1 me. Unless the conspiracy theory still exists that I'm gutter?

I don't buy it.

The need to have the last word.
The intellectual dishonesty.
The personal attacks.
The constant moving of the goal posts.

It's not there. Solid impersonation but missing the things that made Illy suck so much.