Redskins

[Deleted User 318]

I will have to admit that I'm struggling with what is wrong with the tomahawk chop. Call me a homer as well but I have always thought it was cool - whether it be at Seminole or Chiefs game.
I would have to assume that those who are for removing it would say the chop is synonymous with the 'noble savage' stereotype but in all realities Native peoples from the Eastern Woodlands to the Plains tribes used tomahawks for peace, war and every day use.
Removing Redskins, the war paint, and bonnets I am all for.

The Chop, to me, is probably less offensive then the true co-opting of iconography (head dresses, imagery, anything that is actual related to native folks). The sound is what I think does it, as it can be taken in a mocking tone of true Native war cries. I think the arm motion is probably stupid, and meaningless to Native folks. If it wasn't called the Tomahawk Chop, and instead say the Kansas City Chop, with maybe an actual chant, would've easily gotten away with it. However, it's also very recent (last 25 years or so) and to me, for the kids if anything, so why not just nix it with something new.

[CrimsonNBlue]

However, it's also very recent (last 25 years or so) and to me, for the kids if anything, so why not just nix it with something new.

The entire conversation regarding removal of nickname, logos, chants--it's the type of a thing a Kansas State fan would get super upset about "losing."

They got so angry when the school announced their "Fuck KU" sandstorm wasn't going to be played during an ESPN game.

[Deleted User 318]

However, it's also very recent (last 25 years or so) and to me, for the kids if anything, so why not just nix it with something new.

The entire conversation regarding removal of nickname, logos, chants--it's the type of a thing a Kansas State fan would get super upset about "losing."

They got so angry when the school announced their "Fuck KU" sandstorm wasn't going to be played during an ESPN game.

Great analogy. As a KU alum, I don't care if KSU shouts "F*** KU," but I do think it makes them look stupid, and I wouldn't join in any chant that was reciprocal to KSU (I say that hoping I was mature enough before I graduated, but I think I might have jumped in as a stupid kid). I do know I never did the stupid BS chants to the refs. Oh, and pretty sure KSU fans were upset when they weren't allowed to throw dead (or injured) chickens onto the court too.

[pdub]

Totally.

KU shouldn't be the Jayhawks anymore.
Call em something like the Limestones or Phogushers.
Redesign the logo to be a rock or something.
Take out all the chants ( yowza - Fighting Jayhawk - why was he fighting!? ), the songs the band plays.

Any KU fans who get upset about loosing those things, lolz on them.

[holidaysmore]

Appreciate the insight and the points you provided, fellas.

The grouping that all Native people wear headdresses, dance around camp fires with tomahawks and make noises like that is offensive and doesn't paint a true picture of just how diverse Native culture is. If Native peoples believe the 'chop' is offensive and it comes down then so be it.

Remember the ill fated 'Rip his f***** head off' chant the student section use to do before every kick off. That was real dumb.

[Deleted User 318]

Totally.

KU shouldn't be the Jayhawks anymore.
Call em something like the Limestones or Phogushers.
Redesign the logo to be a rock or something.
Take out all the chants ( yowza Fighting Jayhawk - why was he fighting!? ), the songs the band plays.

Any KU fans who get upset about loosing those things, lolz on them.

You do realize the difference between a fake bird and real marginalized people that the United States (and it predecessor colonies) have treated terribly for 400+ years, right?

[Deleted User 318]

Remember the ill fated 'Rip his f***** head off' chant the student section use to do before every kick off. That was real dumb.

Oh, guilty of that one, and probably would mutter it still if I ever make it back to Memorial. I think it's muscle memory. Did they finally stop that?

[pdub]

Jayhawks is based on Jayhawkers who were militants and robbers who burned property and murdered people.
Call them the Fun Smiling Birds and re-do the lyrics to the songs and we should be good.

[Deleted User 318]

Jayhawks is based on Jayhawkers who were militants and robbers who burned property and murdered people.
Call them the Fun Smiling Birds and re-do the lyrics to the songs and we should be good.

My question is unchanged.

And Jayhawkers were also for the abolishment of slavery, not a race, and also the name of Kansans now. And co-opted into a fake bird.

[pdub]

So if you agree with the cause, it's OK that people were robbing and murdering.
Got it.

It's all silly and so full of subjectivity and logic gaps.

[Deleted User 318]

So if you agree with the cause, it's OK that people were robbing and murdering.
Got it.

It's all silly and so full of subjectivity and logic gaps.

[shindig]

Like I stated earlier, where does it end? Just removing monuments, changing team names and mascots? What about the names of cities or States. Sioux City? Kansas? This cancel culture is "not" about being offended, it's about "control". And our governors, mayors, city council, politicians are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

[Deleted User 318]

Like I stated earlier, where does it end? Just removing monuments, changing team names and mascots? What about the names of cities or States. Sioux City? Kansas? This cancel culture is "not" about being offended, it's about "control". And our governors, mayors, city council, politicians are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

I'm....confused by your premise. Who is controlling what? You think people who want less offensive names are trying to take over the country? By changing names?

And we've been doing this for decades:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_ni ... oper_names

And continue to this day:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/16/us/georg ... index.html

[pdub]

I don't think it's control, it's just making feelings to be far more important than they should be.
Comedians have to be dying right now trying to determine if their material is gonna make them loose their career.

[Deleted User 318]

I don't think it's control, it's just integrating feelings as being far more important than they should be.
Comedians have to be dying right now trying to determine if their material is gonna make them loose their career.

I think the only thing comedians need to do to keep their careers is not sexually harass/rape women, or not saying explicitly racist things outside of their material (Rosanne Barr/Michael Richards).

If people stop going to a comedy show because they don't like what a comedian said, isn't that their right?

There are ton of people that play on race, and say things that push the line that still strive. I can't think of one comedian that has been "canceled" due to their material. Chappelle and Burr have been on a tear, and have some of the most charged material out there.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Like I stated earlier, where does it end? Just removing monuments, changing team names and mascots? What about the names of cities or States. Sioux City? Kansas? This cancel culture is "not" about being offended, it's about "control". And our governors, mayors, city council, politicians are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

The convo often goes off the rails here. The term "cancel culture" gets to be too encompassing. I agree that we are absolutely worse off when we're doing things like digging for stuff that people said decades ago and trying to cancel them.

But--there are people on all sides that are guilty of this--there has to be an understanding that there is a world of difference between a statue of Thomas Jefferson and the Washington football team nickname. It's different in just so many ways that it completely changes the conversation to where it's not even the same conversation.

"Where does it end" just becomes another form of whataboutism.

[Deleted User 141]

Now I kinda want to Chiefs to be forced to change their name. Thx pdub

[shindig]

More people with their feelings hurt...lol. OMG, are these people that just have nothing else to do?

https://news.yahoo.com/st-louis-name-ch ... 05165.html

[CrimsonNBlue]

Gee, I wonder why Quinton Lucas has a hard time getting sleep these days . . .

[Deleted User 318]

There is literally no serious advocating for changing St. Louis. This is the right trying to get outraged for the sake of getting outraged. If you look at the actual petition, it's folks who are angry at this fake petition, signing it, only so they can put hateful comments on the petition. The people who have nothing else to do are the folks who just go around trolling the gullible all day, in order to stoke more outrage. If you fall for this, I got a bridge to sell ya.