The Great Outdoors

[shindig]

So I'll be heading to Ouray, CO the week after Labor Day for a dudes trip....anybody ever been there? My buddy Ryan is planning it, so not sure what he has planned. Flights to Montrose are about $200 round trip, but not sure how I feel about flying with COVID. One buddy is driving from Larrytown, so I might just take another few days off and drive with him...thoughts?

[ousdahl]

That drive is fantastic, at least once you get west of the front range.

I’ve driven through Ouray a couple times but haven’t spent much time in the town itself. Cool spot, down in a box canyon, hot springs right in town.

Just north of town is Orvis hot springs, a clothing optional resort if you wanna hang out with your wang out. Montrose just a little further north yet, and the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park, at least worth a stop.

Headed south out of town is the “million dollar highway,” this gnarly road carved into the side of a cliff with no guardrails or anything.

Say hi to Ryan for me!

[ousdahl]

Do you know what you guys have planned?

The black canyon is some of the coolest hiking and fishing around, and south of Ouray as you get into the San Juans there’s plenty of mountains to explore. Old mining country.

I’d say watch out for grizzlies while you’re down there, but the status of the grizzly in the San Juans is a consequence of letting ranchers dictate policy unilaterally and without compromise.

[shindig]

Thanks Ousy...not sure what the "plan" is right now, Ryan is kind of planning it out, he's been there quite a few times with his wife. Probably lots of hiking, possibly fishing, and drinking lots of beer .

I'll post some details once I talk to Ryan in the next few days.

[ousdahl]

Please do!

Oh, and remember to put sunscreen on your...nm

[TDub]

So wait, weve gone wayyy off course here. My main point was about when wolves attack on thw ranchers own property....not public lands, not forest allotments etc

But your article was about a rancher whose cattle were attacked on land they did not own.

"Cassie Miller and her husband, John Petersen, graze several hundred mother cows and their calves on roughly 10,000 acres of spring pasture owned by the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservation in the Blue Mountains east of Pendleton."

Thats not public land. Its a trust owned by a group of umatilla indians and cayuse indians. Its not a public national forest land grazing alottment

[Deleted User 89]

Grazing is good for the wilderness. Overgrazing isnt.

Grazing clears brush to help prevent forest fires, allows sunlight to forwat floor. The millions of hoof prints hold water and prevent it from running off a dry crusty slope, allowing water to seep in the ground to promote plant growth. Manure provides nutrients to the soil and provides a pathway for the spread of seedlings.


I can go on, but you either get the point or not.

this is a disingenuous take

grazing is good if done by the animals that evolved alongside the plants, and within the environment, that they are grazing

most beef cattle are so far removed from that

a friend/colleague, and KU grad, Dr. David Hillis (professor at UT-Austin, member of the National Academy of Sciences) has a ranch in the Texas Hill country. he hunts and raises cattle on his land. but, his cattle aren’t the typical beef cattle raised across the majority of this country...they’re a variety of long-horns that is much more similar to the ancestral stock that have been in the Americas for hundreds of years, and are much less destructive (and drought tolerant) than angus and the like

[Deleted User 89]

I love wilderness areas. Spend lots of time in them, as much as possible. Where have i said otherwise?

Yea, you think camping with cattle is bad....you should try being a mama cow with a wolf prowling.

if the cattle weren’t roasts with legs, and actually had the defenses of their ancestors,it wouldn’t be a problem

bison seem to do pretty well

[Deleted User 89]

and lol at the “adapt or die” mantra when it comes to humans vs any other animal

that’s just silly

[ousdahl]

What if we apply that “adapt or die” mantra to cattle?

[Deleted User 89]

What if we apply that “adapt or die” mantra to cattle?

that’s the real problem, not the wolves

we’ve selectively bred out all of the characteristics that made the ancestral stock successful in the first place...to make them fat and docile, and safe and convenient for humans

[TDub]

Good to know you all only eat chicken and fish.

[ousdahl]

Actually, yeah.

I rarely (okay, medium rarely) eat red meat nowadays. Just don’t have much taste for it any more.

I do like chicken and turkey. But I’ve been eating more plant-based foods too. Between the health benefits, and the reduced carbon footprint, it’s just what I prefer. I’ve even developed more of a taste for it.

[Deleted User 89]

Good to know you all only eat chicken and fish.

generally, yes...and bison and turkey

but like i already said above, there are more responsible ways to do beef

but, ‘murica...freedom...nobody’s gonna tell those ranchers what to do...etc

as i posted in the covid thread, we’d all benefit from replacing a bit of selfishness with altruism

[ousdahl]

What if we apply that “adapt or die” mantra to cattle?

that’s the real problem, not the wolves

we’ve selectively bred out all of the characteristics that made the ancestral stock successful in the first place...to make them fat and docile, and safe and convenient for humans

That’s sort of the problem.

Domesticating is good if it’s just a few animals in a quaint little family farm pasture or whatever.

But we’re talking large scale - how many millions of heads of livestock across how many tens of millions of acres. And no real regard for what that land was like before we got there. Then we put a bunch of defenseless animals in a wild habitat, with no real concern other than short term profits.

We infringe on the predator’s range, then act like it’s the predator’s fault.

[Deleted User 89]

yup

makes think of the folks that raise “cattle” in siberia, where there’s big cats, bigger wolves, and bears

their “cattle” are musk ox

[Deleted User 89]

bison tastes better than beef anyway

[PhDhawk]

Beef is the best tasting meat and its not close.

[twocoach]

and lol at the “adapt or die” mantra when it comes to humans vs any other animal

that’s just silly

I just mean it as a business person. You have to adapt to ever changing rules, ever changing environments, ever changing threats.

The gray wolf has already been delisted from federal protection in Oregon where this happened and the rancher had the option to shoot the wolves if they were competent enough to do it so I guess I dont even know what the heck the complaint is.

[twocoach]

Beef is the best tasting meat and its not close.

I'd rather have a bison burger than a beef burger but honestly, a burger of any meat is mostly just a condiment shuttle. It's usually BBQ sauce I am craving when I cook a burger, not the burger itself.

But a good steak is by far my favorite meat to eat. Do they even do bison steaks?