COVID-19 numbers

[pdub]

I think defending someone punching workers for requesting people to wear masks is different than saying a college kid who doesn't wear a mask to a bar shouldn't die.

[Deleted User 310]

It's funny to me that this board is so quick to shame colleges for re-opening, sending kids to school and people going to Sturgis, etc. yet seem to be cool with 15K fans attending football games live, BLM protests, and shooting 36 holes.

It is hilarious that you keep lumping golf in with things like 15k people attending football games and thousands attending a protest.

Golf is a safe activity. Scientists/doctors have literally identified it as something that is safe to do if certain precautions are being taken. Same as riding a bike or going on a walk. It is one of the things that can be done with low to almost no risk.

[TDub]

No. Ive said numerous times that I support mask mandates. I wear one daily. I think the anti mask morons are retarded. But carry on....call me whatever you want

[Deleted User 89]

elementary-aged kids? that’s just silly, as they don’t know any better. their parents are another story entirely. it’s a bit anecdotal, but i’ve seen too many interviews and read too many comments from parents that are literally sick of their kids. i genuinely question just how much of their wanting their kids back in school has to do with the kids’ well-being versus their own frustration. i can’t help but laugh, and then cringe at the comments coming from parents who are ether just sick of 24/7 babysitting, or who themselves can’t handle the “work” that their kids are supposed to be doing. and these aren’t junior high or high school parents. they’re elementary parents.

and as an aside, i genuinely question the science behind some, cdc included, that say the harm being done to kids by distance learning is greater than the risk of sending them back to school. kids, in general, are fucking resilient, and while distance learning may not be ideal, is it really worse than potential death or long-term health issues? plus, it’s really just a giant experiment with kids as the guinea pigs. these times are unprecedented, so how could anyone know what the long-term implications of distance learning are, particularly on this magnitude.

listen, i get it, some families are in sticky situations where they have no other option but to have their kid/s go back to school, fir a whole host of reasons. those aren’t the folks i’m talking about.

and back to my original point, the governors and elected representatives that have been callous and ignorant from the get-go (looking at you, georgia governor), DERSERVE to get the virus. they’re decisions and inaction directly resulted in preventable deaths. obviously, nearly everyone made mistakes/missteps early on while we were all still learning about this beast, but like i said in regards to the college kids...the writing has been on the wall for months, yet some persisted in their ignorance/selfishness/politicization

I am totally with you about the "why" behind some parents "need" in person learning. It is so obvious at times, especially on social media.

Also agree on the whole "mental health" thing for kids. It is total bullshit imo. There are other ways to make sure your kid isnt sad couped up in the house...now i am obviously not speaking about kids from abusive households where school was their outlet. But at the same time 8hrs at school shouldnt be the only way we try to protect those kids and save them from those situations.

right, there are definitely some situations where home might be the worst place fir a kid to try and learn. i’m just not if the opinion that those represent any sort of substantial proportion of the whole

[TDub]

I think defending someone punching workers for requesting people to wear masks is different than saying a college kid who doesn't wear a mask to a bar shouldn't die.

correct

[Deleted User 89]

I think defending someone punching workers for requesting people to wear masks is different than saying a college kid who doesn't wear a mask to a bar shouldn't die.

there is zero deference in the potential outcome that results from the behaviors of those two groups

and it isn’t just going to a bar, or even a party. it’s the idiocy of CROWDING.

[pdub]

Punching someone, intentionally, is different than going to a bar.

[Deleted User 89]

you guys need to work on your reading comprehension

[pdub]

"there is zero deference in the potential outcome that results from the behaviors of those two groups"

The difference in outcome is in one scenario one person gets punched and in the other, no one gets punched.

[jfish26]

I think defending someone punching workers for requesting people to wear masks is different than saying a college kid who doesn't wear a mask to a bar shouldn't die.

there is zero deference in the potential outcome that results from the behaviors of those two groups

and it isn’t just going to a bar, or even a party. it’s the idiocy of CROWDING.

Honestly, there's just NOT that much moral/ethical difference between choosing to throw a punch at someone, and choosing to crowd in a bar, knowing what we know right now.

When we know as much as we know right now, you don't get to make yourself feel better because you didn't intend to get someone sick.

[PhDhawk]

Intent is important.

A better analogy would be something like serving a crowded bar severely undercooked chicken and a side of cole slaw that has been at room temp for 12 hours.

Or playing 36 holes of golf.

[pdub]

PhD's analogy works.

[jfish26]

Intent is important.

A better analogy would be something like serving a crowded bar severely undercooked chicken and a side of cole slaw that has been at room temp for 12 hours.

Or playing 36 holes of golf.

Intent becomes far less important, from a legal and a moral/ethical standpoint, when the connection between action and consequence is plainly obvious.

And it is absolutely ridiculous to equate outdoor, distanced activities of any kind (whether golf or cycling or rock climbing or kicking a soccer ball around or whatever), with crowding into bars or other enclosed spaces.

[PhDhawk]

Intent is important.

A better analogy would be something like serving a crowded bar severely undercooked chicken and a side of cole slaw that has been at room temp for 12 hours.

Or playing 36 holes of golf.

Intent becomes far less important, from a legal and a moral/ethical standpoint, when the connection between action and consequence is plainly obvious.

And it is absolutely ridiculous to equate outdoor, distanced activities of any kind (whether golf or cycling or rock climbing or kicking a soccer ball around or whatever), with crowding into bars or other enclosed spaces.

any and all golfing posts are exclusively directed at Illannoy.

Isn't there legally and morally a big difference between going to someone's house with a gun in your hand and killing them and killing someone because you were driving recklessly?

[jfish26]

Intent is important.

A better analogy would be something like serving a crowded bar severely undercooked chicken and a side of cole slaw that has been at room temp for 12 hours.

Or playing 36 holes of golf.

Intent becomes far less important, from a legal and a moral/ethical standpoint, when the connection between action and consequence is plainly obvious.

And it is absolutely ridiculous to equate outdoor, distanced activities of any kind (whether golf or cycling or rock climbing or kicking a soccer ball around or whatever), with crowding into bars or other enclosed spaces.

any and all golfing posts are exclusively directed at Illannoy.

Isn't there legally and morally a big difference between going to someone's house with a gun in your hand and killing them and killing someone because you were driving recklessly?

Sure. But there's also a huge difference in the consequences of being punched, versus contracting Covid. Me getting punched doesn't result in me all of the sudden having a likelihood of me punching others.

I'd rather take my chances with someone throwing a punch at me, over being exposed in a bar situation to Covid.

[PhDhawk]

Intent becomes far less important, from a legal and a moral/ethical standpoint, when the connection between action and consequence is plainly obvious.

And it is absolutely ridiculous to equate outdoor, distanced activities of any kind (whether golf or cycling or rock climbing or kicking a soccer ball around or whatever), with crowding into bars or other enclosed spaces.

any and all golfing posts are exclusively directed at Illannoy.

Isn't there legally and morally a big difference between going to someone's house with a gun in your hand and killing them and killing someone because you were driving recklessly?

Sure. But there's also a huge difference in the consequences of being punched, versus contracting Covid. Me getting punched doesn't result in me all of the sudden having a likelihood of me punching others.

I'd rather take my chances with someone throwing a punch at me, over being exposed in a bar situation to Covid.

All the more reason it's not a very good analogy.

[jfish26]

Just saying, the only way one would think that packing into a crowded bar is somehow materially less irresponsible than throwing a punch, is if you're trying to make yourself feel better about knowingly doing something irresponsible.

Which is understandable! No one wants to feel guilty all the time. But it's an irresponsible personal choice.

[pdub]

Punching someone intentionally results in a 100% chance of harm.
And you are INTENTIONALLY trying to harm someone.
That's a huge difference.

Walking into a bar results in a, what, .0001% chance of harm ( odds that you have covid + odds that if you have it that you give it to someone + odds that once that person has it, it actually harms them ).

It's dumb, you shouldn't do it at this point in life.
But if you're a college kid ( or anyone ) I don't wish death on you because your choices don't align with mine.

[pdub]

I guess while we are at it we should wish the death penalty on people who work for cigarette and alcohol companies, for drug dealers, for farmers who grow opium poppies, for gun manufacturers.

[jfish26]

Punching someone intentionally results in a 100% chance of harm.
And you are INTENTIONALLY trying to harm someone.
That's a huge difference.

Walking into a bar results in a, what, .0001% chance of harm ( odds that you have covid + odds that if you have it that you give it to someone + odds that once that person has it, it actually harms them ).

It's dumb, you shouldn't do it at this point in life.
But if you're a college kid ( or anyone ) I don't wish death on you because your choices don't align with mine.

The bolded part is nonsense that doesn't deserve a response (from me at least).

As for the other nonsense - you're vastly underrepresenting the "chance of harm", in a lot of important ways.

The most important is that the "harm" doesn't stop when the Covid you give someone does not "actually harm" them. It needs to not "actually harm" the others they themselves transmit it to.

Second, if you're in a crowded bar, it's overwhelmingly likely that if you expose one person, you expose at least several. All of the sudden, the math suggests that you have resulted in a hospitalization, somewhere down the line.

Throwing a punch might even be the safer activity.

Like I said - someone who thinks there's a material difference in the irresponsibility of the choices, is just trying to make hmiself feel better about making irresponsible choices.