Kenosha

[shindig]

Well in instances like these, the adrenalin of the cops gets going, they're frustrated, but at some point you have to stand back and let the guy get in his vehicle and maybe cool down. Return to the police cruiser and talk to him with the loud speaker. If he drives off, he won't outrun the police helicopters.

[twocoach]

People can and will debate if he should have been shot.
I'm just going to say, I don't really give a damn what color his skin is.
I watched the video. Supposedly he HAD been tasered. He "broke" away. 100% disrespected police orders. Guns were drawn, he was warned, he kept walking away, went to his vehicle, seemingly REACHED for something inside, he got shot by a cop. Multiple times.

People in Kenosha want to hit cops with bricks (as they did), destroy property (as they did), and "act out", so be it but perhaps they should realize that it would have been as simple as Jacob Blake not "resisting" and NONE of this would have happened and continue to be happening - in Kenosha last night.

It also wouldn't have happened if the half dozen officers physically restrained him vs. shooting him seven times.

Exactly! But they didn't restrain him. Instead he "broke away" from them, he disobeyed their order/s, and he was shot. Sucks for all involved but no matter who we want to say is primarily at fault for his being shot, let's not JUST blame the cops for this - or JUST blame Blake.
Seems there is a lot of fault to go around.

Sorry, but I expect trained police officers to behave at a higher level than random citizens.

[Deleted User 310]

Just saw the video....holy fuck.

[Deleted User 310]

also, his 3 young kids were in that car. I don't think he was going to the car for a weapon. I do believe he resisted arrest and was potentially going to get in his car and try to drive away to avoid being arrested.

Resisting arrest can't/shouldn't be a death sentence. It is wrong. It should be taken seriously...but it doesn't authorize use of deadly force.

This has to stop. That cop needs to go to jail for attempted murder. Period.

[twocoach]

I have seen violent white people brandishing weapons who have been successfully restrained without lethal force so we know it can be done.

[Deleted User 289]

twocoach - I've seen white AND black people be successfully restrained without lethal force just as I have seen white and black people be unsuccessfully restrained - and a use of lethal force was used.
Cops deserve a lot of blame when they "lose control" of a situation but why are so many people so dismissive of the fact that 99.5% of the time when you obey a police officer they are not going to use "lethal force" against you?

Illini - You saw A video. Not "the" video. Did you see what happened from the time the cops arrived to Blake being taken to the hospital?
Did he "need" to be shot in the back multiple times? Probably not. If he simply listened to, respected, and didn't "resist" the cops, would he have been shot? I am going to guess/say definitely not.
As far as his intentions, we don't know exactly what they were and my guess is neither do the cops. The cops did know his history and frankly - it's not a good one.
You "believe" something that has not been proven and may never be proven.

My truly worthless 2 cents.
The media and people such as you and I are quick to express our ASSUMPTIONS. Often based on feelings. We all have opinions but how many are based on assumptions and feelings and how many are based on facts?

SUPPOSEDLY Blake was "waving" a knife when the police arrived. If you look closely, as he is walking away from the cops you can see he has an object in his hand. Could be a knife, could be his car keys, could be something else.

SUPPOSEDLY the Cops attempted to use a taser and either it failed or it didn't affect him.

SUPPOSEDLY someone claims Blake actually said he had a gun in the car. I'm not buying it but I can't prove he didn't say it either.
Regardless, he had something in his hand (a knife?) and SUPPOSEDLY he disregarded the Cops commands to drop it, which very well may have affected the "situation".
Like I said before, if he had obeyed the police I believe the "situation" would have ended somewhat PEACEFULLY.

When he seemingly REACHED (not got into) the car, a cop tried to pull him away and he resisted. At that point it's not just about Blake and the cops. Other people very well could have been in danger.

We can play "what ifs" all day long but let me ask this. What if he did have a gun, turned around and shot a cop or multiple cops, then proceeded to shoot others (including his 3 kids in the car?), and then turned the gun on himself and shot himself? Yes, it sucks the guy was shot multiple times in the back but we are talking about a man with a criminal history who was blatantly disobeying police orders and as bad as it is that he was shot because of it, who knows? It could have POSSIBLY been a lot worse.

I have a friend (former co-worker) who lives in Kenosha. He's obviously livid in regards to what is happening there. He's a staunch Republican and he and I do NOT see eye to eye on a lot of things but we are in complete agreement that destroying a city solves NOTHING.

When you see shit like this it has to piss you off no matter what your political beliefs are.
Unless you're an asshole. Then you probably get off on it.

[twocoach]

twocoach - I've seen white AND black people be successfully restrained without lethal force just as I have seen white and black people be unsuccessfully restrained - and a use of lethal force was used.
Cops deserve a lot of blame when they "lose control" of a situation but why are so many people so dismissive of the fact that 99.5% of the time when you obey a police officer they are not going to use "lethal force" against you?

Illini - You saw A video. Not "the" video. Did you see what happened from the time the cops arrived to Blake being taken to the hospital?
Did he "need" to be shot in the back multiple times? Probably not. If he simply listened to, respected, and didn't "resist" the cops, would he have been shot? I am going to guess/say definitely not.
As far as his intentions, we don't know exactly what they were and my guess is neither do the cops. The cops did know his history and frankly - it's not a good one.
You "believe" something that has not been proven and may never be proven.

My truly worthless 2 cents.
The media and people such as you and I are quick to express our ASSUMPTIONS. Often based on feelings. We all have opinions but how many are based on assumptions and feelings and how many are based on facts?

SUPPOSEDLY Blake was "waving" a knife when the police arrived. If you look closely, as he is walking away from the cops you can see he has an object in his hand. Could be a knife, could be his car keys, could be something else.

SUPPOSEDLY the Cops attempted to use a taser and either it failed or it didn't affect him.

SUPPOSEDLY someone claims Blake actually said he had a gun in the car. I'm not buying it but I can't prove he didn't say it either.
Regardless, he had something in his hand (a knife?) and SUPPOSEDLY he disregarded the Cops commands to drop it, which very well may have affected the "situation".
Like I said before, if he had obeyed the police I believe the "situation" would have ended somewhat PEACEFULLY.

When he seemingly REACHED (not got into) the car, a cop tried to pull him away and he resisted. At that point it's not just about Blake and the cops. Other people very well could have been in danger.

We can play "what ifs" all day long but let me ask this. What if he did have a gun, turned around and shot a cop or multiple cops, then proceeded to shoot others (including his 3 kids in the car?), and then turned the gun on himself and shot himself? Yes, it sucks the guy was shot multiple times in the back but we are talking about a man with a criminal history who was blatantly disobeying police orders and as bad as it is that he was shot because of it, who knows? It could have POSSIBLY been a lot worse.

I have a friend (former co-worker) who lives in Kenosha. He's obviously livid in regards to what is happening there. He's a staunch Republican and he and I do NOT see eye to eye on a lot of things but we are in complete agreement that destroying a city solves NOTHING.

When you see shit like this it has to piss you off no matter what your political beliefs are.
Unless you're an asshole. Then you probably get off on it.

It's easy to tell people how they should have behaved from the comfort of a couch. I have no clue what the extenuating circumstances were in this case for either the victim or the officers. But the optics of shooting an unarmed guy in the back seven times in front of his children is never going to play well and has led to the inevitable reaction that has occurred.

The whole "it could have possibly been a lot worse" slippery slope could be applied to anything as justification. It's not how justice is supposed to be doled out in our system. Shoot first "just in case" should not be a police procedure.

[Deleted User 289]

two - I agree with you 100%.

Just received this message from the friend in Kenosha....

Yeah it’s a shit show here. Whole area of town burnt to the ground. Took a drive this morning couldn’t really get close just lots of smoke still. Sad. I’m safe. They say they’re coming for the neighborhoods next.

[Deleted User 289]

Don't know how to post the video but there is a video of a 70 year old store owner in Kenosha trying to protect his store and he was "attacked". If anyone cares to view it it can be seen on Facebook on the "page" protesttheprotester
How do we live in a country where this is not only considered by many to be acceptable but it's actually encouraged and applauded?

[Deleted User 89]

i’m not excusing such acts at all, but...

none of this shit would happen if cops weren’t killing unarmed people in the streets

[twocoach]

Don't know how to post the video but there is a video of a 70 year old store owner in Kenosha trying to protect his store and he was "attacked". If anyone cares to view it it can be seen on Facebook on the "page" protesttheprotester
How do we live in a country where this is not only considered by many to be acceptable but it's actually encouraged and applauded?

By many? Debatable. Burning down a car lot because you're pissed about treatment of balcks by police is fucking dumb and seems to make the desired results less likely not more likely.

Failure to channel frustrations in the right manner is part of what results in cops shooting people who "resist" (AKA people who don't do exactly what a cop says no matter what he says). If you have a problem with that behavior then I dont agree with displaying that same type of behavior and destroying something that didn't need to be destroyed.

But I haven't been at the receiving end of this behavior since the damn of this nation so my point of view isn't the same as those of the African American communities involved in these killings

[twocoach]

two - I agree with you 100%.

Just received this message from the friend in Kenosha....

Yeah it’s a shit show here. Whole area of town burnt to the ground. Took a drive this morning couldn’t really get close just lots of smoke still. Sad. I’m safe. They say they’re coming for the neighborhoods next.

All that does is raise the likelihood of more deaths. Brilliant.

[Deleted User 289]

i’m not excusing such acts at all, but...

none of this shit would happen if cops weren’t killing unarmed people in the streets

That's one way to look at it but I am confident it's more than "just" people reacting to cops "killing unarmed people in the streets" that causes this stuff.
I know many (many being a "relative" term) "outraged" Black people and they don't feel the need to resort to destroying their cities.
Here is an idea, why not have ALL police officers be competent and properly trained and have ALL citizens obey and respect law enforcement?
Seems so simple for me to type that and yet it also seems it's all but impossible for it to happen.

[Deleted User 89]

the destruction happens under the guise of protests

if the protests weren’t happening, it wouldn’t give cover to the looters

[Deleted User 289]

Don't know how to post the video but there is a video of a 70 year old store owner in Kenosha trying to protect his store and he was "attacked". If anyone cares to view it it can be seen on Facebook on the "page" protesttheprotester
How do we live in a country where this is not only considered by many to be acceptable but it's actually encouraged and applauded?

By many? Debatable. Burning down a car lot because you're pissed about treatment of balcks by police is fucking dumb and seems to make the desired results less likely not more likely.

Failure to channel frustrations in the right manner is part of what results in cops shooting people who "resist" (AKA people who don't do exactly what a cop says no matter what he says). If you have a problem with that behavior then I dont agree with displaying that same type of behavior and destroying something that didn't need to be destroyed.

But I haven't been at the receiving end of this behavior since the damn of this nation so my point of view isn't the same as those of the African American communities involved in these killings

"Many" (in terms of the actions I was referring to) is defined by more than 25,000 and less than 200 million in this country. That's a VERY broad range but to me 2 is too many.
I have been out there "protesting" many things at different times in my life. Often I am angry or even "outraged" in regards to what I am "protesting" but NEVER have I felt the need to destroy property or injure someone in the process - and done it.
Granted, I am a "privileged" White man so I don't even want to pretend what it's like to be a RIGHTFULLY fed up pissed off Black person but..... Come on people! Violence and destruction is not going to solve ANY of this.

[twocoach]

Don't know how to post the video but there is a video of a 70 year old store owner in Kenosha trying to protect his store and he was "attacked". If anyone cares to view it it can be seen on Facebook on the "page" protesttheprotester
How do we live in a country where this is not only considered by many to be acceptable but it's actually encouraged and applauded?

By many? Debatable. Burning down a car lot because you're pissed about treatment of balcks by police is fucking dumb and seems to make the desired results less likely not more likely.

Failure to channel frustrations in the right manner is part of what results in cops shooting people who "resist" (AKA people who don't do exactly what a cop says no matter what he says). If you have a problem with that behavior then I dont agree with displaying that same type of behavior and destroying something that didn't need to be destroyed.

But I haven't been at the receiving end of this behavior since the damn of this nation so my point of view isn't the same as those of the African American communities involved in these killings

"Many" (in terms of the actions I was referring to) is defined by more than 25,000 and less than 200 million in this country. That's a VERY broad range but to me 2 is too many.
I have been out there "protesting" many things at different times in my life. Often I am angry or even "outraged" in regards to what I am "protesting" but NEVER have I felt the need to destroy property or injure someone in the process - and done it.
Granted, I am a "privileged" White man so I don't even want to pretend what it's like to be a RIGHTFULLY fed up pissed off Black person but..... Come on people! Violence and destruction is not going to solve ANY of this.

Last I heard, police were called to the area to respond to a report of two women fighting.

Any idea yet what caused the police to have interaction with Blake in the first place?

[twocoach]

i’m not excusing such acts at all, but...

none of this shit would happen if cops weren’t killing unarmed people in the streets

That's one way to look at it but I am confident it's more than "just" people reacting to cops "killing unarmed people in the streets" that causes this stuff.
I know many (many being a "relative" term) "outraged" Black people and they don't feel the need to resort to destroying their cities.
Here is an idea, why not have ALL police officers be competent and properly trained and have ALL citizens obey and respect law enforcement?
Seems so simple for me to type that and yet it also seems it's all but impossible for it to happen.

Because if you fired all of the incompetent officers or the ones who see the job as a way to exert their dominance over others, there wouldnt be enough people to do the job.

[japhy]

twocoach -
When you see shit like this it has to piss you off no matter what your political beliefs are.
Unless you're an asshole. Then you probably get off on it.

Or if you are a white supremacist nut job, or you are a paid Russian Intelligence shit stirrer, and then this message makes sense. This doesn't look like protestor handy work, this looks like instigators who have something to gain from destruction.

[Deleted User 289]

https://heavy.com/news/2020/08/kyle-rittenhouse/

[Deleted User 310]

Supporting the police isnt a bad thing. Most people support the good police. Most people dont support the bad police.

Most people also dont support this sick fuck doing what he did.

I hate that blue lives matter is always a counter protest to black lives matter. Why do people feel the need to do that? It is a stupid and unnecessary rebuttal, usually uttered by a racist or at the very least someone with subconscious bias/prejudice. Same with all lives matter. You only hear it in response to black lives matter....nobody is yelling all lives matter about the 2 people this kid killed. Wonder why that is? (Not really, i know why it is)

I am a reasonable person. I support the BLM movement (not necessarily the organization). I also support police, just not the bad police...but even though i support the good police, i still recognize systemic change is needed and significant police reform is long overdue. Police need to be held accountable when they do things like the Kenosha cop did or what Chauvin did to George Floyd.

It is possible to feel that way. It doesnt need to be as divisive as people make it to be. Supporting black lives doesnt mean anti all cops.