George Floyd and the Ensuing Protests

[Walrus]

I've never tried to argue that police brutality is not a problem. I've instead argued that the tragic event was probably not racism, and the video doesn't show any hint that the police were racist.

[ousdahl]

In your opinion, what would constitute some hint of racism?

[jhawks99]

My great grandpa always told my dad 2 things about guns:

-"there is no such thing as an unloaded gun"

-"do not pull a gun on someone unless you are prepared to use it"

John Wayne told me the same thing.

[Deleted User 310]

My great grandpa always told my dad 2 things about guns:

-"there is no such thing as an unloaded gun"

-"do not pull a gun on someone unless you are prepared to use it"

John Wayne told me the same thing.

Nice!

[Deleted User 289]

The full video is available and it shows a very different picture than what the media manipulated it into. He also had 3 times the lethal amount of fentanyl in his system and alcohol, and he was recovering from covid. Notice how he complains he could not breathe when he was standing and he asking if he could sit on the ground because of his trouble breathing. It's sad to say it, but he likely died because of the stuff in his system and because of the emotional stress of being in trouble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhwxGzYU2ts

How many incidents of excessive force did the cop that stood on his neck have? Something like 18.

Why is it that only the history of the black guy matters to you?

Well said.

This happens a lot (not necessarily at Walrus). Selective application of rules for judgement of character.

That cop is/was a piece of shit. He should be thrown in jail and should never collect another dime of taxpayer money for being a "cop".

JUST FOR "ARGUMENT'S SAKE / OR A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.....

To Sea - I'm not on Chauvin's "side" but.....
* The cop didn't "stood" on his neck.
The cop had 18 COMPLAINTS in 19 years on the force. 16 of which were found to be (declared) bogus.
My guess is the majority of people who are arrested COMPLAIN about "excessive force" being used against them. Right or wrong, fair or not.
I have little doubt Chauvin was an asshole numerous times. He was a cop dealing with jag offs who broke the law and disrespected and disobeyed him. Sometimes people resist and "force" is necessary.
"Excessive force"? Forgetting what happened to George Floyd, I figure it's awfully tough to define what is necessary force and what is excessive force.
Let's be real here. Many cops "in the field"/"on the beat" deal with some really shitty stuff and shitty people. We are not talking about nannies dealing with a kids who refuse to eat their broccoli.
Someone breaks the law, they disobey the cop/s and/or resist arrest - I say they are deserving of whatever force is necessary. "Excessive"? No but I'll say again, there can be a fine line between what is necessary and what is excessive.
* It is possible that it's not "ONLY" "the history of the black guy that matters" - but that it could be a legitimate factor in terms of the person they were dealing with and how they should have dealt with him.
You yourself edited your post to bring up something I agree 100% with. Cops are hardly "experts" when it comes to dealing with people who are messed up on drugs. I blame the "system" more than I blame the individual cops when it comes to their NOT knowing how to deal with people who are whacked out - either on drugs or who have serious mental problems.
In the video the cop actually asks if it's PCP that makes eyes shake/quiver (or whatever word he used).
Clearly he is not an "expert".

Illini - "Selective application of rules for judgement of character" happens in ALL walks of life.
Not just in police vs. criminal situations.
George Floyd didn't "deserve" to die but he also wasn't exactly someone I would consider to be Black Jesus. For what he was accused of doing - no way should what happened happen but,,, He broke the law and that's what instigated this happening.
I agree Chauvin is/was a piece of shit. If it were up to me, I say he deserves jail time and to never be a cop again but it's not up to me. I'll leave it up to a judge and/or jury to decide his fate.

[Deleted User 310]

I do not think the majority of people arrested file complaints for excessive force fwiw.

[ousdahl]

Didn’t prosecutors allege something about Chauvin and Floyd’s past working together?

Did we ever learn more about that angle?

[Deleted User 310]

Didn’t prosecutors allege something about Chauvin and Floyd’s past working together?

Did we ever learn more about that angle?

I am not sure if that is true or if that is some sort of disinformation campaign. I dont think the story originated from "prosecutors".

The story goes that they were security guards at a night club together and didnt like each other.

[Deleted User 289]

I do not think the majority of people arrested file complaints for excessive force fwiw.

After giving it some thought - Obviously there is a difference between filing an actual complaint and simply verbally expressing a complaint. Twice I have had a cop use what I considered to be "excessive force" (for what I was accused of) against me. Both times I complained to others but I never filed a complaint against them.
I would think most people would be afraid to file a complaint unless they were seriously injured and they had to for legal and medical/insurance reasons.

Therefore, it's 100% possible Chauvin used "excessive force" a lot more than 19 times and it was only "reported" 19 times.
I was simply expressing that it's a citizen's word against a cop's word. While I have ZERO doubt many cops lie, who's word/s are those who determine if it was excessive force (or not) going to believe and side with?

[seahawk]

Wow, thanks for the lecture about cops and how they deal with bad people. For some years of my life, I worked with individual officers every day. Lots of cops don't draw their weapons, but Chauvin had shot or shot at several people. He seems exactly like the kind of officer that drives the black community crazy--because he's a racist, sadistic asshole who knelt on someone's neck until they were dead. Someone who said 20 times that he couldn't breathe. I have said previously that I know lots of good cops, but it's tough to get rid of the bad ones and their union and their leadership do little about it and keep on the bad actors like Chauvin.

I saw a retired officer at a reunion a few years ago and we laughed about the day when I called her and said that this one asshole cop could not come back to my building for interviews because of the way he acted with a victim's parent. Her response was, "Could you write that in a memo so I could get rid of him from my unit?" I did and she did. He would come and complain because he went out to arrest, not the pedophile, but the victim's father and had to call a lady judge for an arrest warrant and she yelled at him when she refused the warrant.

I also listened to a former cop who'd escaped prosecution for shooting and killing an innocent civilian express his really ugly racism about a famous local black musician, that even though the guy had a national reputation he was still just a "N-word thug." This cop was later hired again by another police department. I also know lots of officers who are, like the woman I mentioned above, good cops who deal with all kinds of difficult situations every day. They deserve not to have to put up with the Chauvins or the fallout from the hostility they engender in various communities.

Changed my post because saying anything into Lobster's racism is futile. I was rear ended recently and the cop who arrived was this nice young white guy. I thought about the middle aged detectives I'd worked with who had the life experience and control to deal with addicts and mentally ill people and how this young officer wasn't up to handling those kinds of folks. And how neither the experienced guys and gals nor this young guy had places to send these people and how we need to work on removing the police from the role of caseworkers because mental health and substance abuse resources have been cut.

[Deleted User 310]

In todays climate, the biggest danger to good cops are the bad cops. We need to make to make it easier for the good cops to get rid of the bad cops. But it will take serious reform to the system and to the culture of policing. The no snitching culture doesnt only apply to gangs, it often times also holds true in policing.

[Deleted User 89]

read my bottom sig line

it applies to the republican party, and to cops

[Deleted User 310]

read my bottom sig line

it applies to the republican party, and to cops

Very true.

But i have heard horror stories about good cops trying to speak out against their peers...it is a lot harder than you think (not only to have the courage to do it, but also for it to even result in punishment). Power structures in place very similar to a street gang in some ways. More often than not the snitching cop is the one who ends up being punished/blackballed/forced out. Not to mention the unions make it very hard for meaningful punishment to occur in many instances of wrongdoing. And even when it does they can usually just transfer somewhere else and start fresh. It sucks. It needs to change.

[Deleted User 89]

and all of those things we’ve already discussed, but thanks

[twocoach]

read my bottom sig line

it applies to the republican party, and to cops

Very true.

But i have heard horror stories about good cops trying to speak out against their peers...it is a lot harder than you think (not only to have the courage to do it, but also for it to even result in punishment). Power structures in place very similar to a street gang in some ways. More often than not the snitching cop is the one who ends up being punished/blackballed/forced out. Not to mention the unions make it very hard for meaningful punishment to occur in many instances of wrongdoing. And even when it does they can usually just transfer somewhere else and start fresh. It sucks. It needs to change.

100% agreed on all parts.

I would be curious to see what the specifics are of the Police Reform Bill that was passed by the House that is sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk collecting dust.

[Cascadia]

Allegedly the shooter was a 17 year old white male. There is video of him running away from one of the victims while talking on his phone and you can hear him saying that he "just shot somebody."

Yeah, this guy. I couldn't imagine killing two people before I even experienced sex.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/kenosh ... Ns.twitter

He’s probably going to experience a lot of sex in the future

[Deleted User 310]

Allegedly the shooter was a 17 year old white male. There is video of him running away from one of the victims while talking on his phone and you can hear him saying that he "just shot somebody."

Yeah, this guy. I couldn't imagine killing two people before I even experienced sex.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/kenosh ... Ns.twitter

He’s probably going to experience a lot of sex in the future

Truthfully probably not. He will either be in protective segments of whichever prison he is sent to (due to his age and other factors), or since this is likely his first offense he will be sent to a softer prison where there are a bunch of non violent criminals and very little rape.... but he isnt likely to be free on the streets for the next 30ish years.

[Deleted User 289]

Didn't know which thread to post this on.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEZSnOggvJZ/?

[Cascadia]

If he’s convicted of murder, he’ll go to a very tough prison to start. He’ll likely be 18 and will not be given any special treatment due to age.

[Walrus]

Very unlikely. The videos suggest he was defending property, and the later video shows he was assaulted by several people and he defended himself. Wisconsin is not California, and it's very unlikely they will take the side of the terrorists.