Kenosha

[Mjl]

As far as i know law enforcement hasnt released any "reports" to the public so we are all going off of articles and videos.

There is a criminal complaint you can read. The prosecution's side, which is mostly going to be from police reports and eye witnesses.

https://www.theherald-news.com/lists/20 ... xml?page=1

Whoa.

I need to finish reading, but the initial escalation was a dude throwing a plastic bag?

Jesus Christ!

That's the "bomb" that Lobster is referring to, hence my comment earlier.

[Deleted User 289]

I laugh that Walrus refers to the schmuck as Kyle. As if Kyle is a buddy of his.
Regardless of what did or didn't happen, the 17 YEAR OLD kid (who may or may not be "mentally ill") had an AR-15 and used it to shoot people - WHILE THERE WAS A POLICE PRESENCE - and he 100% "got away with it" to the point that the police just let him walk away and go home. Now some are labeling him as a hero.
In this situation my assessment is - fuck the "agitators", fuck "Kyle", fuck the police. They all sucked.

[PhDhawk]

you guys need to lay off lobster, he's the one who's got his priorities in line. It's just like the Marines said in a few good men: "Youtube, Car, God, Country" in THAT order.

Youtube - is obviously the highest authority on all things.
Cars - We protect used cars above all else
God - who originally granted the right that all pimple faced adolescents can carry assault rifles (pretty sure that's a commandment
Country

[PhDhawk]

I laugh that Walrus refers to the schmuck as Kyle. As if Kyle is a buddy of his.
Regardless of what did or didn't happen, the 17 YEAR OLD kid (who may or may not be "mentally ill") had an AR-15 and used it to shoot people - WHILE THERE WAS A POLICE PRESENCE - and he 100% "got away with it" to the point that the police just let him walk away and go home. Now some are labeling him as a hero.
In this situation my assessment is - fuck the "agitators", fuck "Kyle", fuck the police. They all sucked.

Not sure how many wrongs it takes to make a right, but apparently it's what ever number "Kyle" was fir lobster.

[Sparko]

The Supreme Court ruled a long time ago that you can’t shoot a fleeing suspect in the back even if you plant a knife on him or claim that he has done something to warrant suspicion. He didn’t even steal $10 like in the case the SC made the ruling. Deadly force is a last resort, not a way around silencing testimony. Next you’ll tell me they can handcuff a paralyzed patient for suspicion of being arrested with no charges. Wait.

[Mjl]

I laugh that Walrus refers to the schmuck as Kyle. As if Kyle is a buddy of his.

Maybe the redacted name of the person "Kyle" called on the last page of the criminal complaint is "Lobster"

[Sparko]

Kyle was just defending the rights of police to never be held accountable with an illegal weapon miles from home after looking for trouble. Reminds me of the Wakarusa War where Lobster burns down the Hotel Eldridge and shoots into the crowd of Free State terrorists.

[ousdahl]

I’m afraid of these militias, in large part because of the way these militias, and folks like lobster, hold dear to some twisted understanding of the “stand my ground” kinda ideals, and have taken it to some fetishized extreme.

Deadly force indeed should be some very last resort, not something that is supposed to “make my day.”

Let’s focus on valuing life, not trying to justify the looss of it.

[ousdahl]

Oh, and the ACLU called on the police chief and sheriff to resign.

It’s alarming that those dudes said anything less than a strong condemnation of the playtime cop militiamen.

[Deleted User 310]

I’m afraid of these militias, in large part because of the way these militias, and folks like lobster, hold dear to some twisted understanding of the “stand my ground” kinda ideals, and have taken it to some fetishized extreme.

Good lord. "These militias"? You mean the 1? Was that kid even really part of that "militia" from Wisonsin? He is the only 1 who killed anyone as far as i know.

Maybe you are sort of just joking around. It is always hard to tell.

Unless you are out vandalizing property or assaulting cops i am not sure why you would be afraid of them. I still don't agree with them, but i eye roll a little bit at your fake hysteria.

There was a heavily armed all black "militia" (since that term is being thrown around) protecting black owned business in 1 city that i saw....do you fear those guys too? I dont...but at least they were protecting their own property rather than this kid traveling to protect some random business for fun.

[Walrus]

I’m afraid of these militias, in large part because of the way these militias, and folks like lobster, hold dear to some twisted understanding of the “stand my ground” kinda ideals, and have taken it to some fetishized extreme.

Good lord. "These militias"? You mean the 1? Was that kid even really part of that "militia" from Wisonsin? He is the only 1 who killed anyone as far as i know.

Maybe you are sort of just joking around. It is always hard to tell.

Unless you are out vandalizing property or assaulting cops i am not sure why you would be afraid of them. I still don't agree with them, but i eye roll a little bit at your fake hysteria.

There was a heavily armed all black "militia" (since that term is being thrown around) protecting black owned business in 1 city that i saw....do you fear those guys too? I dont.

Those who are entitled are resentful of others who worked hard and earned something. When that entitlement reaches a boiling point, you get these people destroy cars and burn down businesses.

[PhDhawk]

I’m afraid of these militias, in large part because of the way these militias, and folks like lobster, hold dear to some twisted understanding of the “stand my ground” kinda ideals, and have taken it to some fetishized extreme.

Good lord. "These militias"? You mean the 1? Was that kid even really part of that "militia" from Wisonsin? He is the only 1 who killed anyone as far as i know.

Maybe you are sort of just joking around. It is always hard to tell.

Unless you are out vandalizing property or assaulting cops i am not sure why you would be afraid of them. I still don't agree with them, but i eye roll a little bit at your fake hysteria.

There was a heavily armed all black "militia" (since that term is being thrown around) protecting black owned business in 1 city that i saw....do you fear those guys too? I dont...but at least they were protecting their own property rather than this kid traveling to protect some random business for fun.

What I think is truly weird is you have these nerds who think they're in an audition for the next expendables sequel who are arming themselves to go play pretend war with real weapons under the guise of protecting someone else's property in a town hundreds of miles away.

I've had my care broken into. I sure as shit didn't want someone from another town to shoot and kill the person who did it, who the fuck wants that. It sucked having my shit stolen, not enough that I wanted a pubescent stranger from another town to kill the guy who did it.

That's completely different from someone protecting their own business or property and arming themselves to protect themselves if things go south.

[Deleted User 289]

I’m afraid of these militias, in large part because of the way these militias, and folks like lobster, hold dear to some twisted understanding of the “stand my ground” kinda ideals, and have taken it to some fetishized extreme.

Good lord. "These militias"? You mean the 1? Was that kid even really part of that "militia" from Wisonsin? He is the only 1 who killed anyone as far as i know.

Maybe you are sort of just joking around. It is always hard to tell.

Unless you are out vandalizing property or assaulting cops i am not sure why you would be afraid of them. I still don't agree with them, but i eye roll a little bit at your fake hysteria.

There was a heavily armed all black "militia" (since that term is being thrown around) protecting black owned business in 1 city that i saw....do you fear those guys too? I dont...but at least they were protecting their own property rather than this kid traveling to protect some random business for fun.

"Unless you are out vandalizing property or assaulting cops i am not sure why you would be afraid of them. I still don't agree with them, but i eye roll a little bit at your fake hysteria".

Well, some/many are heavily armed and many/some are not properly trained how to use their arms.
Are you fully aware of their mental well being? Do they hate Jews and identify you as a Jew? Do you look like someone who pissed them off in the past and they mistake you for being that person?
I could go on and on.
All it takes is one person to overreact and then a chain reaction not only becomes a possibility but a probability.
Easy for you and I to not be sacred but when one of them accuses you or I of something you or I didn't do - you or I would probably be dumb not to be afraid.

[Walrus]

It's also amusing that some of you claim the shooter was "looking for trouble". He drove 20 minutes from his home to defend private property.

On the other hand, you claim these rioters are "not looking for trouble"? How is setting fire to buildings, burning cars, and carrying illegal pistols "not looking for trouble"? The hypocrisy is comical.

[Deleted User 310]

I’m afraid of these militias, in large part because of the way these militias, and folks like lobster, hold dear to some twisted understanding of the “stand my ground” kinda ideals, and have taken it to some fetishized extreme.

Good lord. "These militias"? You mean the 1? Was that kid even really part of that "militia" from Wisonsin? He is the only 1 who killed anyone as far as i know.

Maybe you are sort of just joking around. It is always hard to tell.

Unless you are out vandalizing property or assaulting cops i am not sure why you would be afraid of them. I still don't agree with them, but i eye roll a little bit at your fake hysteria.

There was a heavily armed all black "militia" (since that term is being thrown around) protecting black owned business in 1 city that i saw....do you fear those guys too? I dont...but at least they were protecting their own property rather than this kid traveling to protect some random business for fun.

"Unless you are out vandalizing property or assaulting cops i am not sure why you would be afraid of them. I still don't agree with them, but i eye roll a little bit at your fake hysteria".

Well, some/many are heavily armed and many/some are not properly trained how to use their arms.
All it takes is one person to overreact and then a chain reaction not only becomes a possibility but a probability.
Easy for you and I to not be sacred but when one of them accuses you or I of something you or I didn't do - you or I would probably be dumb not to be afraid.

I personally would not be at these riots burning shit down.

It is very easy to tell the difference between a peaceful protests and a riot with loooting and destruction/vandalism.

The real protests are organized. Have educated/impactful/important speakers. They have a purpose (bringing awarness, registering people to vote, etc)...i have seen them in my city. There was no violence. No vandalism. And anyone who began to try to be disruptive was promptly shutdown by the protestors long before cops could get involved. It was cool to see.

What was going on that night in Kenosha sure didn't look like a peaceful protest... and i am not saying i have suggestions on how people should protest...but i do have an issue when largely white crowds say they are protesting but are truly mostly there to riot/loot/vandalize... that actually does harm to the movement people of color are trying to lead. White people have done enough damage to POC and to the movement for racial equality. I just cant get behind middle class suburban white kids fucking shit up in the name of helping black people because it doesnt help at all.

[Deleted User 289]

Good lord. "These militias"? You mean the 1? Was that kid even really part of that "militia" from Wisonsin? He is the only 1 who killed anyone as far as i know.

Maybe you are sort of just joking around. It is always hard to tell.

Unless you are out vandalizing property or assaulting cops i am not sure why you would be afraid of them. I still don't agree with them, but i eye roll a little bit at your fake hysteria.

There was a heavily armed all black "militia" (since that term is being thrown around) protecting black owned business in 1 city that i saw....do you fear those guys too? I dont...but at least they were protecting their own property rather than this kid traveling to protect some random business for fun.

"Unless you are out vandalizing property or assaulting cops i am not sure why you would be afraid of them. I still don't agree with them, but i eye roll a little bit at your fake hysteria".

Well, some/many are heavily armed and many/some are not properly trained how to use their arms.
All it takes is one person to overreact and then a chain reaction not only becomes a possibility but a probability.
Easy for you and I to not be sacred but when one of them accuses you or I of something you or I didn't do - you or I would probably be dumb not to be afraid.

I personally would not be at these riots burning shit down.

It is very easy to tell the difference between a peaceful protests and a riot with loooting and destruction/vandalism.

The real protests are organized. Have educated/impactful/important speakers. They have a purpose (bringing awarness, registering people to vote, etc)...i have seen them in my city. There was no violence. No vandalism. And anyone who began to try to be disruptive was promptly shutdown by the protestors long before cops could get involved. It was cool to see.

What was going on that night in Kenosha sure didn't look like a peaceful protest... and i am not saying i have suggestions on how people should protest...but i do have an issue when largely white crowds say they are protesting but are truly mostly there to riot/loot/vandalize... that actually does harm to the movement people of color are trying to lead. White people have done enough damage to POC and to the movement for racial equality. I just cant get behind middle class suburban white kids fucking shit up in the name of helping black people because it doesnt help at all.

I wouldn't be at a riot burning shit down either BUT.....
You say it's easy to tell the difference between a peaceful protest and a riot.
I agree BUT.....I was at a "march" which was peaceful and then all hell broke loose.
I was NOT doing ANYTHING worthy of being "pepper sprayed" and yet I was - because I was "trapped" among those who were deserving of being "pepper sprayed".
At first I was NEVER afraid of the "marchers" nor the police. I started to get afraid when as I said, all hell broke loose and I was an innocent bystander with no quick way out of the situation.
Now what would have happened if I was in a situation where CITIZENS ("militia" or not) had been standing there with their AR-15s and they decided - fuck this - I'm shooting at people?

I agree that "The real protests are organized" with a purpose and many if not most are peaceful and it is preached to those there to be peaceful. Problem is when there is a "march"/"protest"/whatever, often it attracts knuckleheads. All it takes is ONE knucklehead and BOOM.

What was going on in Kenosha was a shit show. MULTIPLE "groups" of people with different purposes and motives. It was a BAD MIX.
I'm not going to place people in labeled groups based on the color of their skin. Some people "fighting" for the SAME "cause" have great motives and some have terrible motives.

Side Note -
About an hour ago I was a block away from my home. I watched the 7-11 getting boarded up (in preparation of the "march" tomorrow) on one corner, people walking in and out of the Shirley Ryan Rehabilitation Facility on another corner, people sitting outside at Starbucks on another corner, and a group of about 10 Black guys "congregating" on another corner.
Which corner do you think most people in this country would have avoided? Why?

[Deleted User 89]

Some of you guys are funny because you're saying it was "illegal" for him to have a rifle -- since when has being "legal" had anything to do with these riots? There's nothing legal about setting fire to cars and shooting those who are in your way.

But let's just look at the facts:

-Kyle was there to protect some private property that the police would not (good on him!)
-The rioters were the first to shoot at him and throw a bomb of some sort in his diretion
-He defended himself against them (as anyone who is strong would)
-They chased him down and tried to kill him.
-The guy who got shot in the arm had an illegal pistol, as he was a felon. That guy tried to shoot Kyle in the head and failed (thank goodness).

The chances of the murder charges sticking are slim to none. The best they can hope for is in illegal firearm charge. This is good as a whole for America because it shows that some people can be brave to stand up to the mob of violent rioters. Maybe they will think twice next time before burning down another town.

Even if other unlawful things went down at the riots, that doesn’t have a bearing on a minor unlawfully possessing an assault rifle.

- of course you’d say “good on him,” but as a whole, we don’t need vigilante militias running around, they’re far more trouble than they’re worth
- I hadn’t heard a bomb threat, but again, let’s wait for a confirmed sequence of events
- a second-defense argument, again, will hinge on the sequence of events, and whether one can claim self-defense if they were unlawfully possessing a firearm to begin with
- at least as it pertains to the vid I saw, they did chase him, and one dude got in a cheap shot, but that’s not trying to kill him, and besides, the cheap shot dude (tan shirt) ran into the crowd, and the kid spun the other way and shot other dudes
- thank goodness, I guess, but if that guy had shot him in the head, the total body count may have been less that day....and it’s funny how fine the line is with “self defense,” as you could just as easily be arguing that pistol dude was just trying to defend himself, since you don’t care whether someone is lawfully possessing a gun otherwise.

And as for your last paragraph, I’ll ponder your angle if I can also encourage you to think about this situation from other angles as well. I’m not sure the reaction we need to the protests is militant high schoolers with assault weapons. Even if there’s property destruction, the answer is not vigilante justice, and loosing lives is more significant either way.

amazing that lobster is the only one who has confirmed the order of events

[Deleted User 89]

It's already confirmed that the rioters shot first and threw some kind of bomb. It's all on video. The only question is, what happened to lead up to this? Kyle was defending a car lot, and most people speculate that one of the rioters tried to vandalize a car. Kyle likely warned them to stop, and then it escalated from there. Bottom line is, these riots are stupid and this is what can happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7SooO03bJ8&t=1225s

where is this confirmed? and please link to a verified/verifiable source...not a youtube vid

[Deleted User 89]

Bomb = grocery bag with a soft drink in it.

Let's just assume you're right (which you aren't), what about the first gun shot?

Also not "confirmed" - learn how to identify reliable sources

he has a hard time reading...hence, the youtubes

[Deleted User 89]

the “rioters” are using the protests as a guise, imo

lobster, gum jordan and others all the way up to trump, find it convenient to just lump them all together