Dumbfuck in charge

Ugh.
jfish26
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Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by jfish26 »

My friend here unsurprisingly puts a neater bow on this than I have:

The Pandemic Diary: Woodward and Trump

https://craigcalcaterra.com/blog/the-pa ... and-trump/
The main takeaway from this should, obviously, be the fact that Trump has now been conclusively proven to have committed an act that, were he not immune from criminal process by virtue of his office, would and should lead to a prosecution for mass negligent homicide. Seriously, if he were a CEO and he was saying that about health hazards his company created that led to thousands of preventable deaths, he’d literally be arrested, even in a country like ours, which goes easy on such things. If this were a different country than the one it is — if this were some late-80s Eastern European autocracy or some mid-century Latin American country ruled by a tyrannical strongman — mobs bashing in the door of the Imperial Palace and frog-marching the Dear Leader before a firing squad would not be out of the realm of possibility. Because he is president, however, and because this is America, however, this will be treated as a political matter.

To be sure, it’s a political matter no sane person shouldn’t have had their mind made up about months ago. Maybe I left a smidgen of room open in my mind which allowed for Trump being too dumb to understand what he was faced with and too shitty a person to care, but that’s not fundamentally different to what he’s now been found to have truly done. It’s more evil than incompetent now — this is evidence of clear calculation with apparent knowledge of the risks we faced as opposed to fingers-in-the-ears defiance — but we knew in March that he was not going to do jack shit to protect the country, at which point a sane U.S. Congress would’ve impeached and removed him anyway. This is damning, yes, but in my assessment, Trump was well beyond damned well before now.

Then there’s the secondary takeaway: the journalistic one. The one in which Bob Woodward sat on the tape of the President of the United States admitting that he was hiding and lying about the danger of the pandemic from the beginning.

[...]

While Trump himself is somehow able to exist in a fantasy world where up is down, most people aren’t. If Trump’s deadly, deceitful words were known in March or April instead of only now, the grifters, the truthers, the Republican governors and all of the sketchy people who have run interference for them and relied on them would not have been able to use their “it’s just like the flu” or “this is easily controllable” rebop as a shield. They would not have been able to simply say, as they did, that they trusted the president and thereby end the conversation. Because they were able to do that — because there was pyramid of COVID-19 bullshit built on the immovable foundation of support for Trump by enough people to make it messy — thousands upon thousands of people have died. And will continue to die, because the tractor tire started rolling down the hill months ago, and we’re all inside of it.
Deleted User 318

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 318 »

I'm not sure that a derelict of duty as president is the same as a CEO leading to deaths. There are dozens if not hundreds of folks in government that review this stuff, and the government itself did not unleash the virus. It's inaction, yes, caused death, but the American people are also complicit. It's not solely on the president.

That said, the president's actions led to over a hundred thousand deaths without doubt. But I don't know the criminal element to it. And even if there was, others in government could still be prosecuted for it.
Deleted User 310

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 310 »

jfish26 wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:28 pm
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:59 pm
twocoach wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:40 pm
It's not half.
Yes. Probably half. The best way to stop the spread is a nearly full on shutdown like the successful countries have done. We stopped our half assed shutdown far too early...and didn't shutdown nearly enough things. People became complacent and lost desire to lockdown for numerous reasons.

This is from a few months ago...

https://apnews.com/915fdbccb3434fee125efaaaaefba0af

"Half of Americans now favor stay-at-home orders, down from about 6 in 10 one month ago and 8 in 10 in April. And about 6 in 10 favor limits on how many people can gather together, down from about 7 in 10 one month ago and about 8 in 10 in April."
But that's my point: fully 1/3 of the country will believe whatever Trump tells them to believe. If he would have told the truth, our path would have been very. very different.
Very true. I totally agree with that.
Deleted User 89

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 89 »

the level of complicity among so many officials is staggering
Deleted User 310

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 310 »

So trump knew it was airborne in February.....that means a shitload of other people did too....and yet it took at the very least a few months before they tell us.....why?
Deleted User 89

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 89 »

“knew” means different things

yes, there were cases of transmission early on, but it wasn’t until May that actual scientific studies were published indicating that airborne transmission was a primary route

https://smithsonianmag.com/science-natu ... 180975547/

that doesn’t, in my mind, absolve anyone of blame for not reacting with an abundance of caution...it’s a deadly pandemic for christ’s sake
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zsn
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Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by zsn »

It’s proof of journalistic malpractice if every Republican running for office isn’t asked to listen to the Woodward recordings and respond to the question “do you believe Trump deserves reelection? Why?” - on the record, literally
Deleted User 310

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 310 »

TraditionKU wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:22 pm “knew” means different things

yes, there were cases of transmission early on, but it wasn’t until May that actual scientific studies were published indicating that airborne transmission was a primary route

https://smithsonianmag.com/science-natu ... 180975547/

that doesn’t, in my mind, absolve anyone of blame for not reacting with an abundance of caution...it’s a deadly pandemic for christ’s sake
So in February is it possible trump was sort of talking out of his ass a little bit about how sure he was of it being airborne?
Deleted User 89

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 89 »

did you read the link?

he absolutely knew there was airborne transmission

but that means different things. nobody knew the full extent of transmissibility then...it was just too early

again though, that doesn’t change the FACT that he outright lied to the American people

and remember, there is still a lot about the virus, and disease, that we don’t know. but it’s a fucking deadly pandemic for christ’s sake...why wouldn’t someone operate with the utmost caution?
Deleted User 89

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 89 »

the level of transmissibility (all airborne) depends on the level of infection of the person transmitting...it’s dose dependent

this isn’t something that was known early on, and it’s why there is asymptomatic spread
jfish26
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Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by jfish26 »

TraditionKU wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:01 pm did you read the link?

he absolutely knew there was airborne transmission

but that means different things. nobody knew the full extent of transmissibility then...it was just too early

again though, that doesn’t change the FACT that he outright lied to the American people

and remember, there is still a lot about the virus, and disease, that we don’t know. but it’s a fucking deadly pandemic for christ’s sake...why wouldn’t someone operate with the utmost caution?
I don't think the scandal is about the science, it's about it now being established fact that Trump lied to the American people about the virus.

Not second-hand. Not a "transcript".

It's just fact: it's his words on some days, which are just not compatible with his words and actions on other days.
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twocoach
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Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by twocoach »

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:48 pm
TraditionKU wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:22 pm “knew” means different things

yes, there were cases of transmission early on, but it wasn’t until May that actual scientific studies were published indicating that airborne transmission was a primary route

https://smithsonianmag.com/science-natu ... 180975547/

that doesn’t, in my mind, absolve anyone of blame for not reacting with an abundance of caution...it’s a deadly pandemic for christ’s sake
So in February is it possible trump was sort of talking out of his ass a little bit about how sure he was of it being airborne?
There's a difference between "knowing" something and having rigorous scientific studies lead to a specific conclusion. It sounds as if Trump had been fully briefed on what was most likely the case and what was most likely the case was later confirmed in scientific study.
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twocoach
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Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by twocoach »

jfish26 wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:05 pm
TraditionKU wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:01 pm did you read the link?

he absolutely knew there was airborne transmission

but that means different things. nobody knew the full extent of transmissibility then...it was just too early

again though, that doesn’t change the FACT that he outright lied to the American people

and remember, there is still a lot about the virus, and disease, that we don’t know. but it’s a fucking deadly pandemic for christ’s sake...why wouldn’t someone operate with the utmost caution?
I don't think the scandal is about the science, it's about it now being established fact that Trump lied to the American people about the virus.

Not second-hand. Not a "transcript".

It's just fact: it's his words on some days, which are just not compatible with his words and actions on other days.
100% agreed. This isnt media spin, it is Trump's own words. He made a conscious decision to deceive for his own political gain and there is no question about that.
Deleted User 310

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 310 »

TraditionKU wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:01 pm did you read the link?

he absolutely knew there was airborne transmission

but that means different things. nobody knew the full extent of transmissibility then...it was just too early

again though, that doesn’t change the FACT that he outright lied to the American people

and remember, there is still a lot about the virus, and disease, that we don’t know. but it’s a fucking deadly pandemic for christ’s sake...why wouldn’t someone operate with the utmost caution?
I am with you....but Fauci also knew there was airborne transmission then...and yet neither said much of anything to us about it so that "we could operate with the utmost caution". It took at least a few months.

I think it is insane that multiple people were lying or withholding information from the american people who were supposed to be our main sources of information.

I am not surprised that some people don't seem to be mad at anyone else other than trump even though we had daily briefings everyday on the virus for months where multiple people spoke and could have elaborated on this for us.
Deleted User 310

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 310 »

twocoach wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:08 pm
jfish26 wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:05 pm
TraditionKU wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:01 pm did you read the link?

he absolutely knew there was airborne transmission

but that means different things. nobody knew the full extent of transmissibility then...it was just too early

again though, that doesn’t change the FACT that he outright lied to the American people

and remember, there is still a lot about the virus, and disease, that we don’t know. but it’s a fucking deadly pandemic for christ’s sake...why wouldn’t someone operate with the utmost caution?
I don't think the scandal is about the science, it's about it now being established fact that Trump lied to the American people about the virus.

Not second-hand. Not a "transcript".

It's just fact: it's his words on some days, which are just not compatible with his words and actions on other days.
100% agreed. This isnt media spin, it is Trump's own words. He made a conscious decision to deceive for his own political gain and there is no question about that.
so what was Fauci's reason then? Because he didn't share this info in February either...and if trump knew then so did fauci. (Speaking about the airborne transmission being the main source of spread)
Deleted User 310

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 310 »

as far as trump downplaying so that there wasnt a panic....well, no shit. We have known that for months just by his ridiculous public statements. Economy over lives. We've known that since he pushed for reopening within a month of our half assed shutdown.

Can't believe he was stupid enough to say it on tape to a guy writing a book...but nothing surprises me at this point. He is an idiot.
Deleted User 89

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 89 »

jfish26 wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:05 pm
TraditionKU wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:01 pm did you read the link?

he absolutely knew there was airborne transmission

but that means different things. nobody knew the full extent of transmissibility then...it was just too early

again though, that doesn’t change the FACT that he outright lied to the American people

and remember, there is still a lot about the virus, and disease, that we don’t know. but it’s a fucking deadly pandemic for christ’s sake...why wouldn’t someone operate with the utmost caution?
I don't think the scandal is about the science, it's about it now being established fact that Trump lied to the American people about the virus.

Not second-hand. Not a "transcript".

It's just fact: it's his words on some days, which are just not compatible with his words and actions on other days.
totally agree
Deleted User 89

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 89 »

twocoach wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:06 pm
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:48 pm
TraditionKU wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:22 pm “knew” means different things

yes, there were cases of transmission early on, but it wasn’t until May that actual scientific studies were published indicating that airborne transmission was a primary route

https://smithsonianmag.com/science-natu ... 180975547/

that doesn’t, in my mind, absolve anyone of blame for not reacting with an abundance of caution...it’s a deadly pandemic for christ’s sake
So in February is it possible trump was sort of talking out of his ass a little bit about how sure he was of it being airborne?
There's a difference between "knowing" something and having rigorous scientific studies lead to a specific conclusion. It sounds as if Trump had been fully briefed on what was most likely the case and what was most likely the case was later confirmed in scientific study.
yes
Deleted User 89

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 89 »

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:09 pm
TraditionKU wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:01 pm did you read the link?

he absolutely knew there was airborne transmission

but that means different things. nobody knew the full extent of transmissibility then...it was just too early

again though, that doesn’t change the FACT that he outright lied to the American people

and remember, there is still a lot about the virus, and disease, that we don’t know. but it’s a fucking deadly pandemic for christ’s sake...why wouldn’t someone operate with the utmost caution?
I am with you....but Fauci also knew there was airborne transmission then...and yet neither said much of anything to us about it so that "we could operate with the utmost caution". It took at least a few months.

I think it is insane that multiple people were lying or withholding information from the american people who were supposed to be our main sources of information.

I am not surprised that some people don't seem to be mad at anyone else other than trump even though we had daily briefings everyday on the virus for months where multiple people spoke and could have elaborated on this for us.
you do understand that Fauci is a scientist, right?

do you know how science works, even down to the basics of the Scientific Method?
Deleted User 89

Re: Dumbfuck in charge

Post by Deleted User 89 »

i really don’t get your fascination with Fauci

imo, he’s been the most honest person in this whole thing...definitely more so than Birx and the cdc director
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