Half Donuts

[ousdahl]

Without just asking, I kinda doubt the tan lines were anywhere too exciting?

But yeah, I remember a freshman year psych professor who was generally kind of an asshole, cold by default to most students, but notoriously cozy with the coeds. The body language told enough, but the rumors were wild. Wonder what became of him. He was kind of old so prob retired by now, if he didn’t get busted for foul play first.

[pdub]

I had an illustration professor meet his second wife that way ( somehow forming a romantic relationship during/after he had her in class ).
As long as both parties are into it, who am I to judge?
If you're 22, you are old enough to make those decisions.

[zsn]

Don't let anyone important know you are attracted to young attractive women.
It's not allowed anymore.

Being appreciative of attractive young women is one thing; acting on that attraction is a different matter. Also there’s a certain creep-factor which enters the picture, based on the difference in age!

[pdub]

If a 20 year old is into a 40 year old, and vice versa, why does it have to be creepy?
That's the same as judging other people for their varied sexual preferences.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I know, hence the possible reason for hating my job.

And fucking Title IX too, amirite.

But honestly...it really is gross for a professor to hit on a 22 year old, so I'll never do it...but, I guess I get why the pervy ones do. At least the initial impulse.

Actually, that's how the position I filled came open. And there was a recent change at the top of the administration because of that. Which again, is gross. Both were men, and both were 20+ years my senior.

Undergrad part would make it creepy AF.

I can understand how grad students and professors get close, but still pretty gross.

[ousdahl]

I had an illustration professor meet his second wife that way ( somehow forming a romantic relationship during/after he had her in class ).
As long as both parties are into it, who am I to judge?
If you're 22, you are old enough to make those decisions.

You’re old enough, sure, but at least with a professor and student there’s that fiduciary or professional relationship or whatever.

In a fair world, romance and attraction should have no bearing on it. But in this realm of existence, the difference between a bad grade and a good grade could be a matter of tan lines.

Without naming names, does anyone know the psych professor I’m talking about? Shorter, older, full of himself-er, and it seemed like my entire time on campus no one could mention him without adding, “but watch out cuz he’s kind of a creep”

[CrimsonNBlue]

Gross.

[PhDhawk]

I know several professors who are now married to people who were their grad students.

I just never understood how you cross that line. That's so awkward.

When #METOO and everything happened, I thought about it a lot more. Of course, now they're old married couples with kids and shit. But at one point is was a 40something boss and 20 something person being "mentored".

CNB made the point about it being less creepy if it's a grad student than an undergrad...and from a maturity standpoint and for other reasons that's true. But I think the power dynamic is so much worse when it's a graduate advisor and his student. I mean, if it was a grad student and some professor in the department that'd be one thing...but when one has THAT much power of the other...it's also pretty icky.

[zsn]

The ick-factor equation changes dramatically, for a 20-year age gap, somewhere between 35-15 and 45-25. Where exactly it changes is in the eye of the beholder. To me, even the latter end has some residual ick.

[Deleted User 89]

If a 20 year old is into a 40 year old, and vice versa, why does it have to be creepy?
That's the same as judging other people for their varied sexual preferences.

and the sentiment is relatively recent

homesteaders frequently married much younger women, for example

two, now emeritus, KU professors were both married prior to bring married to one another, one with a kid. they met when one came to KU for doctorate work in the lab of the other, “fell in love”, and lived happily ever after...this was back in the 60s (they just recently left Lawrence/KU). the elder had been at KU since the 50s

there was easily more than 20 years between them, if not 30

[Deleted User 89]

after i accepted my former job at KU, i met a new professor that was to be my coworker, at a conference/workshop that was primarily attended by grad students (i was technically a grad student at the time)

we happened to have seats next to each other on the first leg of our flights home, and he proceeded to brag to me about “finishing off” a grad student during the previous week. a buddy of mine (also a grad student, and in the same department at KU as this new professor) had attended and partially hooked up with the girl...apparently it didn’t go all the way early in the week because she was having her period

that situation bothered me to no end...bragging about finishing off a student one of your own students had hooked up with

[defixione]

My professor/mentor in graduate school (he was the same age as I as I had decided to go back to school 21 years after receiving my undergrad degree) was dating an undergrad Junior and I thought it was kind of creepy. I remember being a GTA and having to meet with my female students in my office and being worried about what could be said if we met alone so I always had another assistant in our group office whenever I had a meeting. I couldn't believe all the times I was hit on by the female students whether their grade was the subject of the conversation or not. My professor ended up marrying the young girl he was dating and I think their marriage lasted two or three years.

[PhDhawk]

I'm pretty sure Craig Venter, the human genome guy, met his first wife in grad school when they were both grad students, then as a professor he divorced her and married a grad student, then later divorced her and married a new grad student.

He's basically like that McConaughey character in Dazed and Confused.

[CrimsonNBlue]

CNB made the point about it being less creepy if it's a grad student than an undergrad...and from a maturity standpoint and for other reasons that's true. But I think the power dynamic is so much worse when it's a graduate advisor and his student. I mean, if it was a grad student and some professor in the department that'd be one thing...but when one has THAT much power of the other...it's also pretty icky.

Good point.

And, it's only less creepy in the sense that the two people are working together a lot.

Actually, I don't know, that might make it worse or not any better. Just seems so . . . predatory.

[PhDhawk]

Yeah, I suppose you could just fall in love, but when someone controls your research project, when and where you publish, when and if you graduate, when and if you defend....that's a lot of power over someone.

As a professor and as a research scientist I have bosses. But I've never been as vulnerable to the whims of one person as I was as a graduate student. Trying to literally fuck the person who could figuratively fuck me at any wrong turn was never something that crossed my mind. My advisor was a dude, so that's a factor, but still.

[CrimsonNBlue]

In some respects, getting published controls a grad student's destiny.

I know of some real professor-advisor weirdos that would get off on gatekeeping that shit. And that is also hard not to think about when you see that a certain profile/personality of female grad student is being recruited.

[Deleted User 89]

Yeah, I suppose you could just fall in love, but when someone controls your research project, when and where you publish, when and if you graduate, when and if you defend....that's a lot of power over someone.

As a professor and as a research scientist I have bosses. But I've never been as vulnerable to the whims of one person as I was as a graduate student. Trying to literally fuck the person who could figuratively fuck me at any wrong turn was never something that crossed my mind. My advisor was a dude, so that's a factor, but still.

in the first example i gave, the two were field biologists...so add to that control/power aspect that the junior member literally had their life in the senior member’s hands as well

[ousdahl]

I recall one disagreement I had with a professor - comms class?

I was at like an 89.7 for the semester, and emailed her asking if she rounds up.

She emailed back this condescending response about how it was a matter of discretion on her part, but she was giving me a B because I missed a class.

I replied, please double check your attendance records, because I promise I had perfect attendance, and can even provide the notes I took that day as evidence I was there.

She replied even more condescendingly, and basically accused me of lying, insisting that day in class she specifically instructed the students to NOT take notes.

I was very carefully drafting a response like, “wow, I never imagined a professor would penalize me for taking too many notes,” when she followed up with, “on second thought, let’s not let the issue at hand be the difference between an A and a B.”

I was taken aback, wondering if I should complain to the higher ups or show her my tan lines or what, but instead I called it a win and simply replied, “Thanks!”

But yeah, either way, she was so full of herself. She wasn’t shy about saying her comms professorship was basically just a stepping stone toward her aspiring career in politics. Just googled her name and yup, been campaigning for KS house seats.

[Deleted User 865]

I recall one disagreement I had with a professor - comms class?

I was at like an 89.7 for the semester, and emailed her asking if she rounds up.

She emailed back this condescending response about how it was a matter of discretion on her part, but she was giving me a B because I missed a class.

I replied, please double check your attendance records, because I promise I had perfect attendance, and can even provide the notes I took that day as evidence I was there.

She replied even more condescendingly, and basically accused me of lying, insisting that day in class she specifically instructed the students to NOT take notes.

I was very carefully drafting a response like, “wow, I never imagined a professor would penalize me for taking too many notes,” when she followed up with, “on second thought, let’s not let the issue at hand be the difference between an A and a B.”

I was taken aback, wondering if I should complain to the higher ups or show her my tan lines or what, but instead I called it a win and simply replied, “Thanks!”

But yeah, either way, she was so full of herself. She wasn’t shy about saying her comms professorship was basically just a stepping stone toward her aspiring career in politics. Just googled her name and yup, been campaigning for KS house seats.

I would've just showed her your tan lines. I hear that works with professors.

[PhDhawk]

I recall one disagreement I had with a professor - comms class?

I was at like an 89.7 for the semester, and emailed her asking if she rounds up.

She emailed back this condescending response about how it was a matter of discretion on her part, but she was giving me a B because I missed a class.

I replied, please double check your attendance records, because I promise I had perfect attendance, and can even provide the notes I took that day as evidence I was there.

She replied even more condescendingly, and basically accused me of lying, insisting that day in class she specifically instructed the students to NOT take notes.

I was very carefully drafting a response like, “wow, I never imagined a professor would penalize me for taking too many notes,” when she followed up with, “on second thought, let’s not let the issue at hand be the difference between an A and a B.”

I was taken aback, wondering if I should complain to the higher ups or show her my tan lines or what, but instead I called it a win and simply replied, “Thanks!”

But yeah, either way, she was so full of herself. She wasn’t shy about saying her comms professorship was basically just a stepping stone toward her aspiring career in politics. Just googled her name and yup, been campaigning for KS house seats.

sorry but you're the asshole on that one. An A is 90-100. You didn't get there. The higher ups would have supported her. It was generous of her to give you an A, you didn't earn it. You should be thanking her not trying to make her look bad for doing you a favor.