Would you be on the Jury?

[pdub]

There is a mix of both.

Police need to be trained better or vetted better so more responsible humans are in those positions of power - ones with patience and understanding that being a part of the community can go a long ways in serving and protecting it.

You should also not run from police.

[jfish26]

There is a mix of both.

Police need to be trained better or vetted better so more responsible humans are in those positions of power - ones with patience and understanding that being a part of the community can go a long ways in serving and protecting it.

You should also not run from police.

I don't think a single person has said "you should run from the police."

[NewtonHawk11]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/least-15-off ... 26581.html

Interesting article on the charges and whatnot when a cop mistakenly shoots his service weapon instead of a taser.

[NewtonHawk11]

There is a mix of both.

Police need to be trained better or vetted better so more responsible humans are in those positions of power - ones with patience and understanding that being a part of the community can go a long ways in serving and protecting it.

You should also not run from police.

I don't think a single person has said "you should run from the police."

Not a single person here.

[CrimsonNBlue]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/least-15-off ... 26581.html

Interesting article on the charges and whatnot when a cop mistakenly shoots his service weapon instead of a taser.

Unlike seemingly the other 330 million people here (or at least the twitter users), I am not an expert on Minnesota criminal procedure. But, even though I don't at this time think charges can be brought here, I think if it is possible, you get the AG to vigorously investigate and present every piece of evidence to a grand jury and let the people decide all the way to theoretical verdict.

[pdub]

The general theme here is that because he was concerned/feared what might happen because police officers are a threat to poc's that it validates his fleeing from an officer.

"most likely running away from at the very least a beat down"
"but do you think maybe he panicked precisely cuz he feared the kind of brutality"
"what if civilians were allowed to use a “feared for my life” defense"
"maaaaaybe he wouldn’t have felt compelled to run if he trusted that he would’ve been treated fairly while in custody"
"is it worse just to let people like that flee"
"how many communities grow up afraid of cops"

Despite this general fear, it's not in people's best interest to run/resist/break away from the police, and can/usually escalates the situation -- so while police absolutely need to be the more responsible actors here because of the power they hold, it is also important that citizens understand that not every police officer is out to get you, and that many are doing their jobs, and if you've fucked up, if you work together there's a greater chance of peaceful resolutions and even lessened tickets/sentences.

[ousdahl]

Not trying to condone running, just trying to understand what would prompt someone to think it’s the best thing to do in that situation.

It seems less a pragmatic action, and more a fight or flight reaction. People do dumb things when they’re scared. So how do we make them less scared in the first place?

I think understanding that and trying to address the underlying causes is a better path forward than just hammering the mantra of, but y’all shouldn’t run.

[jfish26]

The general theme here is that because he was concerned/feared what might happen because police officers are a threat to poc's that it validates his fleeing from an officer.

"most likely running away from at the very least a beat down"
"but do you think maybe he panicked precisely cuz he feared the kind of brutality"
"what if civilians were allowed to use a “feared for my life” defense"
"maaaaaybe he wouldn’t have felt compelled to run if he trusted that he would’ve been treated fairly while in custody"
"is it worse just to let people like that flee"
"how many communities grow up afraid of cops"

Despite this general fear, it's not in people's best interest to run/resist/break away from the police, and can/usually escalates the situation -- so while police absolutely need to be the more responsible actors here because of the power they hold, it is also important that citizens understand that not every police officer is out to get you, and that many are doing their jobs, and if you've fucked up, if you work together there's a greater chance of peaceful resolutions and even lessened tickets/sentences.

It would sure be helpful if the police would stop fucking killing black people, then!

[ousdahl]

Try explaining to a squirrel that they shouldn’t run from a dog. “If you run it just prompts his instinct to chase! You’re better off staying put and assuming he just wants to smell you”

Wright may not have assumed the cops were just trying to do their job. Maybe he perceived then less as community servants, and more as unaccountable bullies.

[ousdahl]

And just like fish said, maybe cops would be perceived less as unaccountable bullies if they stopped killing black people, (almost always) with impunity.

And what if Wright wasn’t killed - he gets his day in court and says he ran cuz he feared for his life.

That sounds like a silly defense, then you realize cops use that same defense all the time - often when they’re the only ones with the deadly force, and they’re the ones who escalated things.

(ETA not to mention, just how valid Wright’s fear was)

[CrimsonNBlue]

The general theme here is that because he was concerned/feared what might happen because police officers are a threat to poc's that it validates his fleeing from an officer.

"most likely running away from at the very least a beat down"
"but do you think maybe he panicked precisely cuz he feared the kind of brutality"
"what if civilians were allowed to use a “feared for my life” defense"
"maaaaaybe he wouldn’t have felt compelled to run if he trusted that he would’ve been treated fairly while in custody"
"is it worse just to let people like that flee"
"how many communities grow up afraid of cops"

Despite this general fear, it's not in people's best interest to run/resist/break away from the police, and can/usually escalates the situation -- so while police absolutely need to be the more responsible actors here because of the power they hold, it is also important that citizens understand that not every police officer is out to get you, and that many are doing their jobs, and if you've fucked up, if you work together there's a greater chance of peaceful resolutions and even lessened tickets/sentences.

It would sure be helpful if the police would stop fucking killing black people, then!

I read that George Floyd's girlfriend was Wright's teacher.

Reminds of Fred Hampton's mom being Emmett Till's babysitter.

[pdub]

"I think understanding that and trying to address the underlying causes is a better path forward than just hammering the mantra of, but y’all shouldn’t run."

The oversimplification of counter points here ( this sentence just an example of many ) to misconstrue the argument in a way that personifies the person arguing as a simpleton gets you nowhere but only agreeing exactly with the people who already agree with you and further distancing the people who are/were willing to listen to the argument/opinion you had.

Inferring and jumping to conclusions because someone has a counter point is also counter productive to any kind of discussion. It is becoming sadly common these days.

[ousdahl]

Yea. That squirrel needs to learn to just stay put and let the dogs do their job.

[MICHHAWK]

As my daddy told me several times during my teen years......when dealing with authority keep your yap shut. Do what your told. Speak when spoken to. If you have to speak it is yes sir, no sir.

[CrimsonNBlue]

apparently, most of the cops in that community don’t even live there

that sort of thing seems like a no-brainer first step to building a stronger relationship between law enforcement and any community

That is the rule in KCMO and I think it is ideal. But, in practice, it's going to be difficult for many jurisdictions.

Agree on your overall point.

[ousdahl]

And I don’t mean to paint any of y’all as simpletons, early checkin notwithstanding.

But do you mean to make no attempt at any underlying understanding?

[CrimsonNBlue]

As my daddy told me several times during my teen years......when dealing with authority keep your yap shut. Do what your told. Speak when spoken to. If you have to speak it is yes sir, no sir.

Also MICHHAWK:

[ousdahl]

As my daddy told me several times during my teen years......when dealing with authority keep your yap shut. Do what your told. Speak when spoken to. If you have to speak it is yes sir, no sir.

kinky!

[pdub]

Consider me in the middle of ousdahl classifying people who believe that it's better to work together in informing the community on how best to deal with a police interaction as yokels, and MICH's hardline stance that you need to be a complacent bitch to the man.

[jfish26]

"I think understanding that and trying to address the underlying causes is a better path forward than just hammering the mantra of, but y’all shouldn’t run."

The oversimplification of counter points here ( this sentence just an example of many ) to misconstrue the argument in a way that personifies the person arguing as a simpleton gets you nowhere but only agreeing exactly with the people who already agree with you and further distancing the people who are/were willing to listen to the argument/opinion you had.

Inferring and jumping to conclusions because someone has a counter point is also counter productive to any kind of discussion. It is becoming sadly common these days.

I understand what you're saying.

But you need to understand that "people shouldn't run" is so fucking obvious and fundamental that it really just comes across as both-sidesing an issue in order to assign some portion of blame to those people who justifiably fear for their fucking lives in every law enforcement interaction they have.