Would you be on the Jury?

[twocoach]

shoot her in the leg

Miss by a few inches because the target is moving and you kill a bystander.

This isn't the movies, folks.

[Deleted User 863]

Wtf just happened in Ohio?

Girl allegedly called cops cuz she said she was threatened with assault? That’s why she had a knife. But not sure if she’s confirmed as the one who called.

When the cops shows up, there’s a ruckus, people fighting, but it doesn’t seem like anyone even acknowledges the cop, until he sees the girl with the knife as she’s falling away from him, and unloads into her back?

Within seconds of arriving on the scene, and with no apparent attempt to gain understanding of the situation, much less deescalate.

Then as protestors show up at the scene, cops there chant back “blue lives matter”

Just so you know....there is video and the girl who got shot is attempting to stab another person when they're shot.


The story goes she was getting jumped or in a fight and called the cops. In the video people are fighting for sure. You're right it doesn't seem like anybody acknowledged the cop but its a short video (at least that i saw leaked). When the girl engages another girl and starts to stab at her with the knife the cop shoots (is what it looks like to me).

[ousdahl]

But shouldn’t this all at least be a question for a prosecutor, if not a court?

Nope, never mind, just let cops play judge jury and executioner.

[TDub]

I'm no cop, but I think there's better places to shot a 15 year old woman that doesn't amount to a fatal shot. Like the cop wasn't in danger. Either a warning shot, or a disabling shot. Or, a taser? Or just anything else than four in the back.

True. Agreed.


Also, maybe dont stab someone on the sidewalk in front of the cops?

Since we always like to play the "what if it wasn't a cop," were it me and the person being attacked was close family, I'd fire those 4 shots in a heartbeat (and probably miss, but besides the point), and feel justified in doing so, morally and legally.


I also think we are plain sick of seeing people die from police bullets and also wonder if this is not a situation for a taser.

Considering the girl was in front of the other girl its actually pretty lucky/well placed shots that both werent hurt.

And yes, if that was my family member i would've felt justified in firing.

[ousdahl]

It’s a little tougher in this sitch, but this general question:

Did the cops do more to deescalate, or to escalate?

[jfish26]

shoot her in the leg

Miss by a few inches because the target is moving and you kill a bystander.

This isn't the movies, folks.

The "shoot to wound" approach is also harmful to training and would likely result in more police shootings, not fewer. To the extent you need to equip police with weapons at all, the training has to be that the weapon is never, ever to be used where the problem doesn't justify killing.

[pdub]

shoot her in the leg

Miss by a few inches because the target is moving and you kill a bystander.

This isn't the movies, folks.

Yes.
It's a lot harder than you think to shoot someone from even 10 feet away.
The girl was attacking another person with a knife.

A police officer is allowed to use deadly force when the person is a threat of harm to the officer or others. This absolutely applies.

[CrimsonNBlue]

True. Agreed.


Also, maybe dont stab someone on the sidewalk in front of the cops?

Since we always like to play the "what if it wasn't a cop," were it me and the person being attacked was close family, I'd fire those 4 shots in a heartbeat (and probably miss, but besides the point), and feel justified in doing so, morally and legally.


I also think we are plain sick of seeing people die from police bullets and also wonder if this is not a situation for a taser.

Considering the girl was in front of the other girl its actually pretty lucky/well placed shots that both werent hurt.

Pretty good point. Let's just keep a handgun out of my hands and me away from this situation.

[TDub]

It’s a little tougher in this sitch, but this general question:

Did the cops do more to deescalate, or to escalate?

Are the cops supposed to stand by and yell as another person gets stabbed?

There qas no time to assess and gather information.

So if the prosecutors and jury decide.....is the other girl dead instead? Is that a win?

[TDub]

Since we always like to play the "what if it wasn't a cop," were it me and the person being attacked was close family, I'd fire those 4 shots in a heartbeat (and probably miss, but besides the point), and feel justified in doing so, morally and legally.


I also think we are plain sick of seeing people die from police bullets and also wonder if this is not a situation for a taser.

Considering the girl was in front of the other girl its actually pretty lucky/well placed shots that both werent hurt.

Pretty good point. Let's just keep a handgun out of my hands and me away from this situation.

Me too, i try to stay away from knife fights in the street.

[pdub]

It’s a little tougher in this sitch, but this general question:

Did the cops do more to deescalate, or to escalate?

It could easily be argued that if that girl armed with the knife got another swing in that she could have connected with the neck and killed someone.

After the shots were fired, there was no more swinging of a knife.
So - deescalated.

[Deleted User 865]

I mean you're not wrong. And perhaps since everything moved very quick, he missed his initial target. Maybe he didn't. But I think he had to fire. And the end result really sucks.

I, personally, expect if you are going out there with a gun, and the right to end another's life, that you have the absolute top talent and training doing it. I'm not watching the video, as I am done with snuff films, but commentary seems to say that there were options. Regardless, moving quickly to me is not an excuse.

[twocoach]

It’s a little tougher in this sitch, but this general question:

Did the cops do more to deescalate, or to escalate?

Sometimes their job is simply to intervene on behalf of an endangered citizen. It would have been awesome if the girl had listened to the officer's requests and optimal if the officer was able to taser the girl but the girls being attacked do have the right to not get stabbed.

[TDub]

I mean you're not wrong. And perhaps since everything moved very quick, he missed his initial target. Maybe he didn't. But I think he had to fire. And the end result really sucks.

I, personally, expect if you are going out there with a gun, and the right to end another's life, that you have the absolute top talent and training doing it. I'm not watching the video, as I am done with snuff films, but commentary seems to say that there were options. Regardless, moving quickly to me is not an excuse.

If you're not going to watch the video then dont make assumptions about solutions or guilt

[Cascadia]

My question is, why 4 shots?

[ousdahl]

Because he can?

[TDub]

I want to know how oussie would have handled it? He cant even handle an early check in request.


No answer for 4 shots other than adrenaline but not sure thats an acceptable answer. Also, not sure the number of shots matters provided the first one was well placed. I also dont think thats the main argument here but, i dunno

[pdub]

My question is, why 4 shots?

Fair question - but likely due to the stress of the situation.
If he had kept firing after the girl had fallen over, then I think we have an issue that could lead to his firing and possibly a charge.

Very bad timing but this circumstance is so very far away from many others where there was no immediate threat.
Look back to George Floyd, Terence Crutcher or Philando Castile ( holy shit how was the officer not guilty of anything ) -- using this as a case against police injustice will be detrimental to the cause.

[jfish26]

I want to know how oussie would have handled it? He cant even handle an early check in request.


No answer for 4 shots other than adrenaline but not sure thats an acceptable answer. Also, not sure the number of shots matters provided the first one was well placed. I also dont think thats the main argument here but, i dunno

It's part of the training. If you're going to shoot, you need to shoot to kill.

(There are also practical, economic considerations to that. But that's a whole other ball of wax.)

[TDub]

Yea, im just saying 1 shot mightve done that. But i think thats a periphery argument anyway