Would you be on the Jury?

[Deleted User 89]

Re: parents who can’t afford to have kids, does that at all segue from the quality sex ed some of us received in the how we learned it in school thread?

utah has the highrest ratios of kids to adults, and also has one of the highest rates of childhood hunger

some of it is the mormons, but they largely take care of their own and have pretty good community support

anyone care to guess where all those other impoverished kids are coming from?

[Deleted User 865]

This will go smoothly.

[ousdahl]

District Attorney Andrew Womble told the judge that he viewed the body camera video and disagreed with a characterization by attorneys for Brown’s family that his car was stationary when the shooting started. Womble said the video shows that Brown’s car made contact with law enforcement twice before shots could be heard on the video.

[ousdahl]

So that’s the first we’ve heard of any attempt to offer justification for the shooting - the car made “contact.”

So what amount and detail of contact warrants deadly force?

If the dude tried to run over cops, yeah, likely warranted.

But that still doesn’t sound like what happened here. They would have alleged that by now.

If it’s, say, a cop just runs up and pounds on the window or grabs the door handle or something, does that warrant?

[ousdahl]

And the way the DA says the family mischaracterizes the video when they haven’t even gotten to see the most important part yet, sigh.

What are they trying to hide?

Besides blurring faces.

Like why would the critical moment of the video be omitted thus far? Why not be up front about this “contact” all along!

[CrimsonNBlue]

If the dude tried to run over cops, yeah, likely warranted.

But that still doesn’t sound like what happened here. They would have alleged that by now.

I don't agree that this assumption is definitely true. Remember that the DA is reviewing if criminal charges can be brought against the cops. Even easier to assume the department is just shutting the F up considering the intense environment we are in right now.

[ousdahl]

I suppose.

I guess I’m assuming cuz, again, whenever cops have any justification for their actions, they seem to offer that a lot quicker than otherwise. But yeah, we shouldn’t assume.

Why do you think they would have only offered 20 seconds of video to the fam so far, with the most critical moment still omitted?

[CrimsonNBlue]

I suppose.

I guess I’m assuming cuz, again, whenever cops have any justification for their actions, they seem to offer that a lot quicker than otherwise. But yeah, we shouldn’t assume.

Why do you think they would have only offered 20 seconds of video to the fam so far, with the most critical moment still omitted?

I was not at the hearing, but the AP makes it sound like the DA was responding to the assertion that the car was stationary. Not offered as justification for the police's actions--that's not his lane.


Why the DA has not shared the video with the family is for him to answer, but my guess is it is because he (correctly) assumes that it would be shared to the world if he does that, and he is not ready for that.

For now, I think it is inappropriate to blanketly assume the DA is in bed with the police department (although there is, of course, plenty of precedent to understand going there).

[Deleted User 863]

I'm 100% with Cascadia on this. It needs to be school.

And, if it is school, that should only help HS students to not drop out.

You can re-tool how you set up HS. If you are not going to college, your curricula could be geared more toward trades, so you'd take more welding, shop, drafting, woodworking, home-ec type courses. If you're college bound you take AP courses and dual credit and prepare for college.

Hasn't high school curricula been set up that way for decades? I had options to take more trade-centric classes or more college-centric classes back in the late 80s when I went to school and now so do my kids.

Some places have access/programs for this type of thing, but not everywhere. I would guess far fewer school districts that are predominantly minorities have access to these types of things compared to predominantly white school districts.

[ousdahl]

Yeah, forgive me if I’m hesitant to give much benefit of the doubt to the cops and DAs, especially when they’re the ones not being up front.

Does it seem like the material question will come down to the circumstances surrounding that “contact?”

[ousdahl]

And, okay, I guess it’s not just the da and cops dragging their feet, but the judge, and the state laws that muck up this process too.

It’s almost like this whole problem is, I dunno, systemic...

[CrimsonNBlue]

I also think it is pretty annoying when journalists throw fits to have investigation/lawsuit related facts be made public right the F now without 0 thought/respect/knowledge for the process. Then when denied, even reasonably, they draw negative conclusions therefrom and write hit pieces. Sports journalists are really bad about that, in particular.


A couple pages back, I replied incredulously to illy's notion that the footage need not be released and it does the public no good. The caveat to that is to make a good public policy argument why the footage should be released immediately or even the second after the incident. You'd have a hard time selling me on either. Judge giving 10 days is pretty reasonable.

[twocoach]

I'm 100% with Cascadia on this. It needs to be school.

And, if it is school, that should only help HS students to not drop out.

You can re-tool how you set up HS. If you are not going to college, your curricula could be geared more toward trades, so you'd take more welding, shop, drafting, woodworking, home-ec type courses. If you're college bound you take AP courses and dual credit and prepare for college.

Hasn't high school curricula been set up that way for decades? I had options to take more trade-centric classes or more college-centric classes back in the late 80s when I went to school and now so do my kids.

Some places have access/programs for this type of thing, but not everywhere. I would guess far fewer school districts that are predominantly minorities have access to these types of things compared to predominantly white school districts.

Just checked the website for Omaha Central, one of the OPS school districts that serves North Omaha, a primarily African American district. They have an AP course track as well as dual enrollment but did not have any trade-focused classes.

[ousdahl]

One question I struggle with is, how much special treatment cops should get, particularly when it’s a question of potential misconduct.

If some publicly furnished cameras caught any other crime on record, how long would it take?

Or, say the apartment complex had its own private camera on the lot. Or if a journalist, or heck a teenage bystander with a camera phone (ever heard this one before?!)

Could the landlord/journalist/bystander be prevented from sharing his vid to the public? In the name of the investigation, whether into potential police misconduct or otherwise?

Maybe these hypos are silly tho

[Deleted User 863]

Maybe these hypos are silly tho

Ya think?

[ousdahl]

Maybe they aren’t tho?

Why should public servants not be more accountable to the public?

[CrimsonNBlue]

One question I struggle with is, how much special treatment cops should get, particularly when it’s a question of potential misconduct.

If some publicly furnished cameras caught any other crime on record, how long would it take?

Or, say the apartment complex had its own private camera on the lot. Or if a journalist, or heck a teenage bystander with a camera phone (ever heard this one before?!)

Could the landlord/journalist/bystander be prevented from sharing his vid to the public? In the name of the investigation, whether into potential police misconduct or otherwise?

Maybe these hypos are silly tho

Not silly, just not particularly useful. The things that stick out to me are that precedent would be really hard to find because no one cares if it doesn't involve a police shooting. You just don't have people banging on the DA/Judge's door for footage in vast majority of crimes (if they're even on tape, which, rarely). ETA: read the DA's reasoning for asking for more days, it had to do with the mass publicity.

A big reason why no one cares about other hypos: police throw a public servant factor into the mix. Again, precedent hard to find (and body cam footage is very new in the grand scheme of it all), but it very well could be that video footage of police shootings is released publicly even quicker than video footage of crimes that are not police shootings.



Private cameras aren't a comparison because, like the teenager bystander, they can leak on their own.

[ousdahl]

Yea.

It’s just wild that this isn’t a bigger concern to more people.

Agents of the state mowing down unarmed civilians sounds so Orwellian, but for a number of reasons, Mericans are just like used to it.

Heck, what if they didn’t even have the right guy, and some Breonna Taylor just happened to be leaving the parking lot at the time? That’s not that far fetched.

[Deleted User 89]

and is why the DOJ is investigating the entire louisville pd, but only the FBI is assisting in the more recent case

[ousdahl]

I think if the DOJ were to investigate individual departments, they could find misconduct at damn near all of them.

Turns out humans might take advantage when afforded rules to make them less accountable, whoda guessed that.