Strikes

[PhDhawk]

I'm too busy at this self check out to worry about it.

[ousdahl]

Ha.

At the grocery store in my town, they have like a dozen or so manned checkout stations, but I’ve never seen more than 2 actually manned.

One could theorize it’s that they just aren’t adequately staffed, but then you see the self checkouts.

They have two rows of 6 self check outs apiece, yet there’s never more than one of the rows open at a time, even if there’s a big line of checkouts waiting all the way down the cereal aisle, like what is this, an Apple Jacks conference?

[Cascadia]

I go through self checkout just so I don't have to listen to the conversations at the manned checkout stations.

People complaining about pricing or coupons just drives me fucking nuts

[Mjl]

I don't buy that automation eliminates jobs. It just shifts them. There's been automation for decades now - job market was fantastic until the pandemic and seems to be coming back now.

[ousdahl]

I think it may be more the types of jobs it eliminates?

bottom of the totem pole grocery store clerks, fast food workers, bank tellers...

you know, the kinds of folks who already don’t work anyway cuz they’re lazy freeloading welfare queens who would rather make more money collecting gummint handouts.

Why go back to struggling to survive on free market wages when you could suckle from Mich’s teat instead?

[Mjl]

But those kinds of jobs have been getting eliminated for a long time without any apparent effect on the unemployment rate, so they're going somewhere.

Our grandparents would have had a hard time believing everyone would be able to type and use computers. I think that's today's version of people today not believing everyone will know how to code, or in some way contribute to "the machines". I wouldn't be surprised to see Python become as basic of a skill as using, say, Excel.

[ousdahl]

I could see that.

Heck, our grandparents would have a hard time believing grocery store clerks and bank tellers just can’t afford a living in those positions any more.

[TDub]

Bet youre great in a drum circle ous

[PhDhawk]

But those kinds of jobs have been getting eliminated for a long time without any apparent effect on the unemployment rate, so they're going somewhere.

Our grandparents would have had a hard time believing everyone would be able to type and use computers. I think that's today's version of people today not believing everyone will know how to code, or in some way contribute to "the machines". I wouldn't be surprised to see Python become as basic of a skill as using, say, Excel.

I think 2 different things are happenning simultaneously. There's the innovation that creates jobs, and automation that eliminates them or at least is a net reduction. The former has outpaced the latter.

But let's not pretend that when Wal-Mart got it's self checkouts it gave all the remaining employees bonuses and created more positions other places.

And, I'm not sure how the vast number of jobs involved in deliveries, transportation, etc that will be replaced by self driving vehicles and drones get shifted to other things, particularly if that transition happens quickly.

[ousdahl]

Isn’t this part of the argument for like a universal basic income or whatever?

[PhDhawk]

Yeah

And....It's still a weird ad campaign. What's next, buy our pizzas because we switched cardboard suppliers for our pizza boxes?

[PhDhawk]

Also, when employment dropped during the Obama administration, Trump claimed that was just people no longer searching for jobs, not job creation....and during the Trump administration when jobs increased the liberals claimed it was only the shitty low paying variety.

So....neither of those jibes with shifting to better jobs.

[Mjl]

Also, when employment dropped during the Obama administration, Trump claimed that was just people no longer searching for jobs, not job creation....and during the Trump administration when jobs increased the liberals claimed it was only the shitty low paying variety.

So....neither of those jibes with shifting to better jobs.

But the actual data does jibe with it. The last two years that data is available (2018 and 2019), median income rose more than inflation and rose more than average income: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

[PhDhawk]

Also, when employment dropped during the Obama administration, Trump claimed that was just people no longer searching for jobs, not job creation....and during the Trump administration when jobs increased the liberals claimed it was only the shitty low paying variety.

So....neither of those jibes with shifting to better jobs.

But the actual data does jibe with it. The last two years that data is available (2018 and 2019), median income rose more than inflation and rose more than average income: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

Thanks for posting that. It more or less is in agreement with what I observe, if not what I hear in the media and from Ousdahl. I do think, in the macro, that technological advances produces jobs, and often good ones. In our respective professions I think you and I are accutely aware of this. I think it's obvious too though, that in the micro, there are specific instances where that's not the case. I think this is one of those. Obviously, you create some jobs, the people who develop and build and maintain the self-driving vehicles, but you clearly eliminate more. Domino's wouldn't be doing it if it increased costs by having more people on the payroll earning higher salaries. Clearly the jobs you lose are not the greatest, but they're jobs nonetheless.

Lots of interesting ethical arguments about this kind of thing? Is having 10 entry level jobs replaced by 4 good ones a good thing...maybe, at what ratio does it become a bad thing, etc.

But, it still seems like a weird way to sell pizzas. If instead they'd said, "Now you can get the same great pizza, but save money not tipping the no longer employed delivery driver!" I think there'd be a lot of (justifiable) pushback. But in both cases, they're using their new technology to get people to buy pizzas.

[jhawks99]

Just saw a Dominos pizza commercial advertising driverless delivery vehicles.

Find it interesting thst their sales pitch is, "buy our pizzas, we just eliminated jobs!"

If you notice, the license plate says, "Yes We Did"

[Mjl]

Also, when employment dropped during the Obama administration, Trump claimed that was just people no longer searching for jobs, not job creation....and during the Trump administration when jobs increased the liberals claimed it was only the shitty low paying variety.

So....neither of those jibes with shifting to better jobs.

But the actual data does jibe with it. The last two years that data is available (2018 and 2019), median income rose more than inflation and rose more than average income: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

Thanks for posting that. It more or less is in agreement with what I observe, if not what I hear in the media and from Ousdahl. I do think, in the macro, that technological advances produces jobs, and often good ones. In our respective professions I think you and I are accutely aware of this. I think it's obvious too though, that in the micro, there are specific instances where that's not the case. I think this is one of those. Obviously, you create some jobs, the people who develop and build and maintain the self-driving vehicles, but you clearly eliminate more. Domino's wouldn't be doing it if it increased costs by having more people on the payroll earning higher salaries. Clearly the jobs you lose are not the greatest, but they're jobs nonetheless.

Lots of interesting ethical arguments about this kind of thing? Is having 10 entry level jobs replaced by 4 good ones a good thing...maybe, at what ratio does it become a bad thing, etc.

But, it still seems like a weird way to sell pizzas. If instead they'd said, "Now you can get the same great pizza, but save money not tipping the no longer employed delivery driver!" I think there'd be a lot of (justifiable) pushback. But in both cases, they're using their new technology to get people to buy pizzas.

Yep, completely agree

[zsn]

One needs to look no further than the shift from horse drawn carriages to automobiles. Definitely the latter requires higher skill jobs than whip crackers and poop-picker-uppers. Same is going to continue, higher skills and better wages. Those who are replaced are going to belly ache, and vote for the demagogues, in this case the Republicans.

[PhDhawk]

One needs to look no further than the shift from horse drawn carriages to automobiles. Definitely the latter requires higher skill jobs than whip crackers and poop-picker-uppers. Same is going to continue, higher skills and better wages. Those who are replaced are going to belly ache, and vote for the demagogues, in this case the Republicans.

Classic Bay Area looking down your nose at others.

I think there's a fundamentally important difference between a college student losing his job while he pays his way through school and a coal minor who refuses to change careers. But it sucks for either of them to loose their job.

I don't think the only people who ever lose a job are the lowly uneducated rubes you loathe so much and are so superior to.

[ousdahl]

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021 ... he-economy

Why soaring stocks could be bad news for the economy

[ousdahl]

Hmm