Israel/Palestine

[ousdahl]

ousie, your crusade to defend Hamas is odd

Where do I defend Hamas?

If anything, I intend to stop condoning violence, both ways.

Mjl seems to only be concerned about Palestinian aggression, and give a pass to Israel’s violence.

There’s blame to be had all around. And I just don’t think escalating violence with more violence is the way to end violence.

I’m just being a dumb hippie, cuz I suppose my end game here is peace in the Middle East, and about that...lulz.

[Deleted User 89]

ousie, your crusade to defend Hamas is odd

Where do I defend Hamas?

If anything, I intend to stop condoning violence, both ways.

Mjl seems to only be concerned about Palestinian aggression, and give a pass to Israel’s violence.

There’s blame to be had all around. And I just don’t think escalating violence with more violence is the way to end violence.

I’m just being a dumb hippie, cuz I suppose my end game here is peace in the Middle East, and about that...lulz.

maybe i misunderstood your stance, but you seemed to have put the lion’s share of the blame on Israel, which i think is misguided

imo, if anyone deserves the majority of the blame it is the terroristic muslim factions, stretching back to long before Israel was even a nation

as MJL and perhaps others have pointed out, only one side has said they will never acknowledge the existence of the other. and as i said earlier, there is only one side that resorts to things like suicide bombings

[ousdahl]

I mean, at least in the vacuum of this present conflict, Israel has been far more aggressive, at least depending on what numbers you see.

But it almost seems like you can’t even be anti-war without being accused of being anti- or pro- one side or the other. it sucks that taking sides is almost expected.

Like I said, I’m just being the looser in the middle trying to call for peace. It’s crazy how difficult it is to just foster some sense of humanity on both sides, but here we are back in the religion is dum thread.

Maybe we could organize a “hummus with Hamas” mixer? Or some Israeli snack pun?

[Deleted User 89]

I mean, at least in the vacuum of this present conflict, Israel has been far more aggressive, at least depending on what numbers you see.

But it almost seems like you can’t even be anti-war without being accused of being anti- or pro- one side or the other. it sucks that taking sides is almost expected.

Like I said, I’m just being the looser in the middle trying to call for peace. It’s crazy how difficult it is to just foster some sense of humanity on both sides, but here we are back in the religion is dum thread.

Maybe we could organize a “hummus with Hamas” mixer? Or some Israeli snack pun?

but that’s the thing, you can’t pretend this is all happening in a vacuum

and even if you do, again only one side has said they’ll never recognize the other...and that rhetoric was a thing before bibi was in power

i’m all for peace, and am if the opinion that both sides need to make changes in order for it to happen

i guess right or wrong, i just trust Israel (and even most palestinians) more than i do hamas

[Deleted User 89]

plus, i’m team Zohan...not team Fatoush

[ousdahl]

I suppose I’ve read a lot about how Israel is the oppressor and Palestine is the oppressed, and heard it described as apartheid.

that too could prob go both ways, depending on who you ask.

But I’m predisposed to advocate for the oppressed in that kinda situation. Again, attribute it to growing up on RATM.

I suppose it’s kinda surprising how many of my far left meme pages started posting pics of Palestinian kids with their faces blown off and shit. I could do with less of that.

[Deleted User 89]

I suppose I’ve read a lot about how Israel is the oppressor and Palestine is the oppressed, and heard it described as apartheid.

and i’m sure there is a lot of truth to this, which is why i’m in no way trying to make Israel, and bibi in particular, out to be the good guys

the only good guys are the innocent citizens that are just trying to survive, be they Israeli or Palestinian, Jewish, Muslim or Arab

[Leawood]

I am admittedly confused about all of this, but it seems to me that Hamas is using the Palestinians (the victims) as human shields. I do have a problem with Jewish people stating that "this is the land God granted/willed to us" as a pretext to the taking of land. But I cannot forget the night my Dad passed over 40 years ago when, as a teenager, the Holocaust survivors up the street let me sleep in the middle of their bed because my Mom was a basket case.

I have no answers. All of this is unsettling.

[ousdahl]

“Mr. President, can I ask you a quick question on Israel before you drive away?”

“No you can’t, not unless you get in front of the car as I step on it”

[ousdahl]

[ousdahl]

Oh hey, a ceasefire!

It was brokered by Egypt, not Merica..

[Mjl]

Whoa, did you just admit that Israel’s land grabs were part of the problem too?!?!?!

Cuz so far, you’ve mostly just condoned Israel’s actions while condemning Palestine’s.

Again, you're being a Trumper. Over-simplifying everything because you don't actually know anything about it

[Mjl]

Oh hey, a ceasefire!

It was brokered by Egypt, not Merica..

Thank you for bringing up Egypt. They didn't think Israel had a right to exist. They fought with Israel many years. They attacked Israel, Israel beat them, and as part of the cease fire Israel took some of their land because, again, actions have consequences. Israel offered them the land back for peace, it was accepted, and they haven't fought since.

Every one of those things has happened between Israel and the Palestinians, with the exception of the last clause. They couldn't stop attacking Israel, they couldn't hold their end of the deal.

[ousdahl]

Whoa, did you just admit that Israel’s land grabs were part of the problem too?!?!?!

Cuz so far, you’ve mostly just condoned Israel’s actions while condemning Palestine’s.

Again, you're being a Trumper. Over-simplifying everything because you don't actually know anything about it

With the irony being, much of my understanding comes from far left meme pages that suddenly went all “stand up for Palestine” as a break from the usual BLM and economic equality fake news.

[ousdahl]

Oh hey, a ceasefire!

It was brokered by Egypt, not Merica..

Thank you for bringing up Egypt. They didn't think Israel had a right to exist. They fought with Israel many years. They attacked Israel, Israel beat them, and as part of the cease fire Israel took some of their land because, again, actions have consequences. Israel offered them the land back for peace, it was accepted, and they haven't fought since.

Every one of those things has happened between Israel and the Palestinians, with the exception of the last clause. They couldn't stop attacking Israel, they couldn't hold their end of the deal.

So Israel offered land they took from Palestine and Palestine kept fighting?

Or Israel just never offered the land?

But either way, I love the thought of diplomatic peace efforts.

[Mjl]

Whoa, did you just admit that Israel’s land grabs were part of the problem too?!?!?!

Cuz so far, you’ve mostly just condoned Israel’s actions while condemning Palestine’s.

Again, you're being a Trumper. Over-simplifying everything because you don't actually know anything about it

With the irony being, much of my understanding comes from far left meme pages that suddenly went all “stand up for Palestine” as a break from the usual BLM and economic equality fake news.

You're missing the point. Trumper in style, not content.

[ousdahl]

Ok yea. I need to reread this thread and do more homework, apparently. #MAGA

Cuz the first time around it seemed like you were condemning everything Palestine and condoning everything Israel, as if it’s OK when one side is violent but not the other.

[Mjl]

Oh hey, a ceasefire!

It was brokered by Egypt, not Merica..

Thank you for bringing up Egypt. They didn't think Israel had a right to exist. They fought with Israel many years. They attacked Israel, Israel beat them, and as part of the cease fire Israel took some of their land because, again, actions have consequences. Israel offered them the land back for peace, it was accepted, and they haven't fought since.

Every one of those things has happened between Israel and the Palestinians, with the exception of the last clause. They couldn't stop attacking Israel, they couldn't hold their end of the deal.

So Israel offered land they took from Palestine and Palestine kept fighting?

Or Israel just never offered the land?

But either way, I love the thought of diplomatic peace efforts.

Again, when we were kids, Gaza and the West Bank were part of Israel. Peace deals were made to give those back to the Palestinians to create a two-state solution. The result was that the suicide bombings continued at the same pace. Hence restrictions of movements, checkpoints, etc.

[Mjl]

Ok yea. I need to reread this thread and do more homework, apparently. #MAGA

Cuz the first time around it seemed like you were condemning everything Palestine and condoning everything Israel, as if it’s OK when one side is violent but not the other.

I am not ok with the settlements. I do not think launching rockets at people not responsible for those settlements is ok. I am ok with defending against terrorists that are launching those rockets.

[ousdahl]

That could easily be said by either Israel or Palestine.

I guess that’s my point: both sides do it.(now I’m really going full trumper, right illy?). But it just seems silly to perpetuate on the grounds that, they started it! That can always be said.

Please don’t mistake my hippie world peace pipe dream for taking a side.

But if I could agree with you, yeah, I do not think launching rockets at people not responsible for those settlements is ok. Or launching rockets at anyone, for that matter.

And I agree, I am ok with defending against terrorists. But maybe my dilemma is when defense becomes terrorism in itself.