COVID-19 - On the Ground

[hasbeen]

This thread is 226 pages so I'm not going all the way back, but has there been any discussion around the lab leak origin story of COVID-19?

Like all things, it became politicized in the beginning because Trump and his goons advanced the possibility of a sinister motive behind the development of the virus, rather than an accident in a lab followed by a sinister cover-up.

That caused everyone on Twitter and cable news to reflexively dismiss the idea but I've always thought it had some merit, based on my limited virology education. Lab leaks are rare but have happened for decades. They haven't found the animal source in the wild yet either if it was a natural jump between species.

This matters for lots of reasons, but definitely because if lab leak + cover up by Chinese government is ever proven, then what?

From what I've read, zoonotic origin seems like the most likely explanation, but there are good and documented reasons to at least investigate the possibility of a lab leak and subsequent coverup.

Of course, things that should be investigated are going uninvestigated quite a lot these days.

Also really hard to investigate if the Chinese government doesn't cooperate. I'm trying to weight my general curiosity and skepticism of the zoonotic origin vs the fact that the people really pushing the lab leak theory have always been hardliners against China. With some of these people, it's just a convenient way to push the US closer to war with them.

[pdub]

If it was a leak, China would do everything within its power to keep it covered.

[Deleted User 880]

Sorry for the hijack but my my how things have changed in regards to airline travel during the pandemic. I traveled at the very beginning of the pandemic and understandably there was mass/extreme paranoia in many regards.
This past week, if it wasn't for "mandatory" mask wearing in the airport and on the plane, you would have no idea Covid exists.
Reagan National was a joke. No one cleaning anything anywhere that I could see.
I say it's a joke in that....
Customers get fed this bullshit from American Airlines in their "Our Clean Commitment" on their website.

Enhanced cleaning....
"We clean and sanitize high-touch surfaces in the airport, like kiosks, ticket counters and seating areas. On our planes, we deep clean tray tables, seatbelt buckles, armrests, window shades, seatback screens, doors and overhead bin handles. We also treat our planes with SurfaceWise®2, a breakthrough coating that provides enhanced protection by sustained killing of 99.9% of viruses, including coronaviruses, on surfaces".

BULL SHIT!!!!!!
My mother and I arrived two hours early and we NEVER saw any "high-touch surfaces in the airport, like kiosks, ticket counters and seating areas" being cleaned at any time.
Also, our plane arrived at the gate, people deplaned, and then there was a grand total of 10 minutes before we boarded. ZERO chance that the "tray tables, seatbelt buckles, armrests, window shades, seatback screens, doors and overhead bin handles" were "deep clean/ed" in those 10 minutes.


Back to people debating and trying to deduct how the virus originated......
If/when someone convinces me they know exactly how it originated, please assure me it will never happen again. Thanks.

[jfish26]

This thread is 226 pages so I'm not going all the way back, but has there been any discussion around the lab leak origin story of COVID-19?

Like all things, it became politicized in the beginning because Trump and his goons advanced the possibility of a sinister motive behind the development of the virus, rather than an accident in a lab followed by a sinister cover-up.

That caused everyone on Twitter and cable news to reflexively dismiss the idea but I've always thought it had some merit, based on my limited virology education. Lab leaks are rare but have happened for decades. They haven't found the animal source in the wild yet either if it was a natural jump between species.

This matters for lots of reasons, but definitely because if lab leak + cover up by Chinese government is ever proven, then what?

From what I've read, zoonotic origin seems like the most likely explanation, but there are good and documented reasons to at least investigate the possibility of a lab leak and subsequent coverup.

Of course, things that should be investigated are going uninvestigated quite a lot these days.

Also really hard to investigate if the Chinese government doesn't cooperate. I'm trying to weight my general curiosity and skepticism of the zoonotic origin vs the fact that the people really pushing the lab leak theory have always been hardliners against China. With some of these people, it's just a convenient way to push the US closer to war with them.

About the only shot the rest of the world would have would be to present a unified front on economic sanctions and penalties; the rest of the world ceasing to buy Chinese products would certainly do the trick.

This would be an example of how vital it is that we reestablish our reputation as a reliable partner and leader on the international stage.

[TDub]

It came from a lab...i mentioned that possibility last year and was labeled a trumper, loony, conspiracy theorist. Whatever.

[TDub]

Sorry for the hijack but my my how things have changed in regards to airline travel during the pandemic. I traveled at the very beginning of the pandemic and understandably there was mass/extreme paranoia in many regards.
This past week, if it wasn't for "mandatory" mask wearing in the airport and on the plane, you would have no idea Covid exists.
Reagan National was a joke. No one cleaning anything anywhere that I could see.
I say it's a joke in that....
Customers get fed this bullshit from American Airlines in their "Our Clean Commitment" on their website.

Enhanced cleaning....
"We clean and sanitize high-touch surfaces in the airport, like kiosks, ticket counters and seating areas. On our planes, we deep clean tray tables, seatbelt buckles, armrests, window shades, seatback screens, doors and overhead bin handles. We also treat our planes with SurfaceWise®2, a breakthrough coating that provides enhanced protection by sustained killing of 99.9% of viruses, including coronaviruses, on surfaces".

BULL SHIT!!!!!!
My mother and I arrived two hours early and we NEVER saw any "high-touch surfaces in the airport, like kiosks, ticket counters and seating areas" being cleaned at any time.
Also, our plane arrived at the gate, people deplaned, and then there was a grand total of 10 minutes before we boarded. ZERO chance that the "tray tables, seatbelt buckles, armrests, window shades, seatback screens, doors and overhead bin handles" were "deep clean/ed" in those 10 minutes.


Back to people debating and trying to deduct how the virus originated......
If/when someone convinces me they know exactly how it originated, please assure me it will never happen again. Thanks.

0 confirmed cases contracted from touching contaminated surfaces. Rest eas gutter just dobt breathe in peoples breath or make out with strangers.

[jfish26]

Sorry for the hijack but my my how things have changed in regards to airline travel during the pandemic. I traveled at the very beginning of the pandemic and understandably there was mass/extreme paranoia in many regards.
This past week, if it wasn't for "mandatory" mask wearing in the airport and on the plane, you would have no idea Covid exists.
Reagan National was a joke. No one cleaning anything anywhere that I could see.
I say it's a joke in that....
Customers get fed this bullshit from American Airlines in their "Our Clean Commitment" on their website.

Enhanced cleaning....
"We clean and sanitize high-touch surfaces in the airport, like kiosks, ticket counters and seating areas. On our planes, we deep clean tray tables, seatbelt buckles, armrests, window shades, seatback screens, doors and overhead bin handles. We also treat our planes with SurfaceWise®2, a breakthrough coating that provides enhanced protection by sustained killing of 99.9% of viruses, including coronaviruses, on surfaces".

BULL SHIT!!!!!!
My mother and I arrived two hours early and we NEVER saw any "high-touch surfaces in the airport, like kiosks, ticket counters and seating areas" being cleaned at any time.
Also, our plane arrived at the gate, people deplaned, and then there was a grand total of 10 minutes before we boarded. ZERO chance that the "tray tables, seatbelt buckles, armrests, window shades, seatback screens, doors and overhead bin handles" were "deep clean/ed" in those 10 minutes.


Back to people debating and trying to deduct how the virus originated......
If/when someone convinces me they know exactly how it originated, please assure me it will never happen again. Thanks.

0 confirmed cases contracted from touching contaminated surfaces. Rest eas gutter just dobt breathe in peoples breath or make out with strangers.

The collective freakout over surface transmission has been an enormous mistake. We knew by this time last year that it's just not something worth worrying over.

[TDub]

Taking the vaccine is not a “medical decision”

I just want to hang onto this, its wonderful. This guy is the guy that likes to call people dumb. Thats good stuff.

If lobsta wouldve said this the board wouldve shit circles around themselves.

[TDub]

Sorry for the hijack but my my how things have changed in regards to airline travel during the pandemic. I traveled at the very beginning of the pandemic and understandably there was mass/extreme paranoia in many regards.
This past week, if it wasn't for "mandatory" mask wearing in the airport and on the plane, you would have no idea Covid exists.
Reagan National was a joke. No one cleaning anything anywhere that I could see.
I say it's a joke in that....
Customers get fed this bullshit from American Airlines in their "Our Clean Commitment" on their website.

Enhanced cleaning....
"We clean and sanitize high-touch surfaces in the airport, like kiosks, ticket counters and seating areas. On our planes, we deep clean tray tables, seatbelt buckles, armrests, window shades, seatback screens, doors and overhead bin handles. We also treat our planes with SurfaceWise®2, a breakthrough coating that provides enhanced protection by sustained killing of 99.9% of viruses, including coronaviruses, on surfaces".

BULL SHIT!!!!!!
My mother and I arrived two hours early and we NEVER saw any "high-touch surfaces in the airport, like kiosks, ticket counters and seating areas" being cleaned at any time.
Also, our plane arrived at the gate, people deplaned, and then there was a grand total of 10 minutes before we boarded. ZERO chance that the "tray tables, seatbelt buckles, armrests, window shades, seatback screens, doors and overhead bin handles" were "deep clean/ed" in those 10 minutes.


Back to people debating and trying to deduct how the virus originated......
If/when someone convinces me they know exactly how it originated, please assure me it will never happen again. Thanks.

0 confirmed cases contracted from touching contaminated surfaces. Rest eas gutter just dobt breathe in peoples breath or make out with strangers.

The collective freakout over surface transmission has been an enormous mistake. We knew by this time last year that it's just not something worth worrying over.

Correct. The spraying of the streets and dramatic santizing everything has been simply theater

[hasbeen]

It came from a lab...i mentioned that possibility last year and was labeled a trumper, loony, conspiracy theorist. Whatever.

It may not make you a "trumper, loony, conspiracy theorist" but just stating it as fact like it's self-evidently true does make you something.

[hasbeen]

Taking the vaccine is not a “medical decision”

I just want to hang onto this, its wonderful. This guy is the guy that likes to call people dumb. Thats good stuff.

If lobsta wouldve said this the board wouldve shit circles around themselves.

It's a medical decision. You being flabbergasted that teenagers could make the medical decision without their parents consent is weirdo behavior.

[TDub]

What medical decisions can a 15 yr o make?

Without parental consent

[TDub]

It came from a lab...i mentioned that possibility last year and was labeled a trumper, loony, conspiracy theorist. Whatever.

It may not make you a "trumper, loony, conspiracy theorist" but just stating it as fact like it's self-evidently true does make you something.

I meant to add a "likely" in there.

The holy Fauci has said it warrants an investigation...tells ys somethin.. either hes learned something or its going to be uncovered anyway so he might as well get ahead of it

[hasbeen]

What medical decisions can a 15 yr o make?

Without parental consent

I don't know. I also don't think it matters. The fact that we don't allow 15 year olds to make other decisions doesn't mean they can't make this decision.

You might be willing to let anti-vax parents keep teenagers from getting the shot, but I'm not. High school kids do pass and suffer from the virus, unlike the younger kids. They aren't taking a recreational drug; they're taking a shot that has been rigorously tested and has real world success.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fa ... t-n1268093

[jfish26]

What medical decisions can a 15 yr o make?

Without parental consent

I don't know. I also don't think it matters. The fact that we don't allow 15 year olds to make other decisions doesn't mean they can't make this decision.

You might be willing to let anti-vax parents keep teenagers from getting the shot, but I'm not. High school kids do pass and suffer from the virus, unlike the younger kids. They aren't taking a recreational drug; they're taking a shot that has been rigorously tested and has real world success.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fa ... t-n1268093

The sad reality that anything that has even a hint of letting teenage girls (or women, generally) make decisions about their own bodies is going to call down the flying monkeys.

[TDub]

What medical decisions can a 15 yr o make?

Without parental consent

I don't know. I also don't think it matters. The fact that we don't allow 15 year olds to make other decisions doesn't mean they can't make this decision.

You might be willing to let anti-vax parents keep teenagers from getting the shot, but I'm not. High school kids do pass and suffer from the virus, unlike the younger kids. They aren't taking a recreational drug; they're taking a shot that has been rigorously tested and has real world success.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fa ... t-n1268093

I got my shots, though i was a bit hesitant. Im young and healthy enough that I'd probably be fine. However, my kids cant get the shot yet and for them and for the others i decided to get it.

Yes has been tested, yes has success, yes ultimately worth the potential risks to me.

But, we dont know the long term effects of the vaccine (or of covid) Im not going to be mad at anyone for taking it or not taking it. Its a personal choice. I just think its an odd place for the govt to draw the line on what a teenager can decide for themselves. The vaccine, with the lotteries, and constant bombardment of pressure is odd. I dont like feeling like its being forced down my throat.

[TDub]

What medical decisions can a 15 yr o make?

Without parental consent

I don't know. I also don't think it matters. The fact that we don't allow 15 year olds to make other decisions doesn't mean they can't make this decision.

You might be willing to let anti-vax parents keep teenagers from getting the shot, but I'm not. High school kids do pass and suffer from the virus, unlike the younger kids. They aren't taking a recreational drug; they're taking a shot that has been rigorously tested and has real world success.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fa ... t-n1268093

The sad reality that anything that has even a hint of letting teenage girls (or women, generally) make decisions about their own bodies is going to call down the flying monkeys.

Youre the only one bringing gender into it that ive seen.

[MICHHAWK]

if and when they ever make the vaccine mandatory for kids to return to school, i will be last in line. i may feel differently 6 months, 12 months from now. but as of right now, i would move very slowly towards the vaccine with my young person. if and when they make it mandatory to return to school.

[jfish26]

I don't know. I also don't think it matters. The fact that we don't allow 15 year olds to make other decisions doesn't mean they can't make this decision.

You might be willing to let anti-vax parents keep teenagers from getting the shot, but I'm not. High school kids do pass and suffer from the virus, unlike the younger kids. They aren't taking a recreational drug; they're taking a shot that has been rigorously tested and has real world success.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fa ... t-n1268093

The sad reality that anything that has even a hint of letting teenage girls (or women, generally) make decisions about their own bodies is going to call down the flying monkeys.

Youre the only one bringing gender into it that ive seen.

I make no judgment as to your specific intent. Generally, it's pretty safe to infer a particular subtext into variations of whether a minor can make their own "medical decisions."

What I mean is this: there's a fuck-ton of people who will, either in bad faith or as a matter of faith, insist on shit like teenagers not being allowed to choose to get the shot, simply because that is a step in the direction of teenagers being allowed to choose to do certain other things that, broadly, fall under the umbrella of "medical decisions."

[jfish26]

if and when they ever make the vaccine mandatory for kids to return to school, i would be last in line. i may feel differently 6 months, 12 months from now. but as of right now, i would move very slowly towards the vaccine with my young person. if and when they make it mandatory to return to school.

Can you walk me through this? What does the "mandatory" nature of it have to do with anything? It sounds like you would just want your young person to be "last in line" in any case?

Just trying to understand what you're saying.