Coach K

[ousdahl]

Isn’t the Duke athletic department the same guys whose “search” for eligibility issues also starts and ends by 1pm on the same business day?

[twocoach]

Nobody actually believes this, right?

Not I, but if people chose to be honest I/you/we could probably find out in about 5 minutes.

If you told me that search firm was run by a Duke grad and booster I'd believe it.

[pdub]

Remember when Duke did that internal search and found no violations?
Thank god for them.

[Deleted User 880]

Word on the street is Scheyer is a douche.
From what I was just told, Scheyer was of course their guy but (to appease the Dookies who they felt wouldn't be happy with Scheyer????) they did in fact "interview" several other people. Not sure if a search firm was actually involved and if it took 10 days but my guess is it can be verified if they felt the desire/need to publicly say it.

[ousdahl]

Yeah, that’s what I was referring to.

News broke of shady eligibility issues surrounding some recruit/current player, and like an hour later, Duke tweeted that after a thorough investigation they found no wrongdoing.

Who was that player, anyway?

[PhDhawk]

I'm sure they did hire a search committee...that doesn't mean they didn't have "Their guy" already. But you probably put out some feelers, if for no other reason than to see how the job is being viewed, so...is Brad Stevens even interested...Would Mike Brey take it for cheap...and, to determine things like Scheyer's asking price and maybe do a basic background check on him...etc.

[NDballer13]

Since Self has been here he's been better than probably everyone if we are talking winning %. K does have 1 more natty than Self during the KU years.

But resume wise it's really not close.

Self:
729-223 (77%)
1 natty
3 final fours
2x AP COY
1x Naismith COY

K:
1097-302 (78%)
5 nattys
12 final fours
3x Naismith COY

Can't find Self's NCAA tournament only record, but his career tournament record is 49-21 (70%), which i think includes conference tournys.

Ks tournament record is 97-30 (76%) in the NCAA, but 2-2 in the NIT.


Love Self, but his lack of NCAA tournament success when it comes to winning national titles makes it hard for him to get into the convo with guys like K or even Roy imo.

If you were to order these from most important to least important when seeing how great a coach is, how would you do it?

National Title
Conference Title
30 win season


National titles 5-1 K
Conference Titles 19-12 Self
30 win seasons 15-10* K Should be 11, but 2020 technically finished with 28 wins.

It's the same argument I've made about individual team success. Too much emphasis is put on national titles when that is decided by a single elimination, non-series tournament. Natty's and Final Fours are the only thing K has on Self, everything else Self is right with him, or better.

It's not hard, at all, for Self to "get in the convo".

[PhDhawk]

Yeah, that’s what I was referring to.

News broke of shady eligibility issues surrounding some recruit/current player, and like an hour later, Duke tweeted that after a thorough investigation they found no wrongdoing.

Who was that player, anyway?

Wasn't in Wendell Carter? or Bagley?

I think they "investigated" Zion too but that was at the start of the school year and not mid-season.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I'm sure they did hire a search committee...that doesn't mean they didn't have "Their guy" already. But you probably put out some feelers, if for no other reason than to see how the job is being viewed, so...is Brad Stevens even interested...Would Mike Brey take it for cheap...and, to determine things like Scheyer's asking price and maybe do a basic background check on him...etc.

The cynical side of me wonders if it was done to fulfill some kind of internal minority candidate requirement. You would probably know about the existence of those better than I.

[PhDhawk]

I'm sure they did hire a search committee...that doesn't mean they didn't have "Their guy" already. But you probably put out some feelers, if for no other reason than to see how the job is being viewed, so...is Brad Stevens even interested...Would Mike Brey take it for cheap...and, to determine things like Scheyer's asking price and maybe do a basic background check on him...etc.

The cynical side of me wonders if it was done to fulfill some kind of internal minority candidate requirement. You would probably know about the existence of those better than I.

Dook is private. So, I think it would depend on their own internal rules.

Which, my cynical side now, makes it a lot easier for them to "get away with" recruiting violations than public schools.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I'm sure they did hire a search committee...that doesn't mean they didn't have "Their guy" already. But you probably put out some feelers, if for no other reason than to see how the job is being viewed, so...is Brad Stevens even interested...Would Mike Brey take it for cheap...and, to determine things like Scheyer's asking price and maybe do a basic background check on him...etc.

The cynical side of me wonders if it was done to fulfill some kind of internal minority candidate requirement. You would probably know about the existence of those better than I.

Dook is private. So, I think it would depend on their own internal rules.

Which, my cynical side now, makes it a lot easier for them to "get away with" recruiting violations than public schools.

Right. Thought maybe your time at Yale would give some insight as to how common those are. Pretty common in private non-academia but not so often put in writing.

[Deleted User 863]

Since Self has been here he's been better than probably everyone if we are talking winning %. K does have 1 more natty than Self during the KU years.

But resume wise it's really not close.

Self:
729-223 (77%)
1 natty
3 final fours
2x AP COY
1x Naismith COY

K:
1097-302 (78%)
5 nattys
12 final fours
3x Naismith COY

Can't find Self's NCAA tournament only record, but his career tournament record is 49-21 (70%), which i think includes conference tournys.

Ks tournament record is 97-30 (76%) in the NCAA, but 2-2 in the NIT.


Love Self, but his lack of NCAA tournament success when it comes to winning national titles makes it hard for him to get into the convo with guys like K or even Roy imo.

If you were to order these from most important to least important when seeing how great a coach is, how would you do it?

National Title
Conference Title
30 win season


National titles 5-1 K
Conference Titles 19-12 Self
30 win seasons 15-10* K Should be 11, but 2020 technically finished with 28 wins.

It's the same argument I've made about individual team success. Too much emphasis is put on national titles when that is decided by a single elimination, non-series tournament. Natty's and Final Fours are the only thing K has on Self, everything else Self is right with him, or better.

It's not hard, at all, for Self to "get in the convo".

K has more total wins and a better winning %.

So basically everything other than regular season conference titles?


Hate it or love it, national titles matter at a place like Kansas. Self is elite. No denying it, but he's not in the convo with K for best college coach ever.

[Deleted User 863]

I have seen recent lists where Self wasn't even ranked 1st or 2nd in active head coaches.

[Deleted User 89]

lol

even when presented with objective facts you can’t help but double down

[Deleted User 89]

most Kansas fans are smart enough to know that natty’s aren’t the end-all, be-all metric of success or greatness

most Kansas fans...

[CrimsonNBlue]

I have seen recent lists where Self wasn't even ranked 1st or 2nd in active head coaches.

Done engaging on the current completely contrived argument.

So, a positive tangent, doesn't an active (in 2023) coaching Mount Rushmore look something like:

Izzo
Self
Calipari
Boeheim(?)

[PhDhawk]

I have seen recent lists where Self wasn't even ranked 1st or 2nd in active head coaches.

[Walrus]

Seems like everyone is retiring. Perhaps the new transfer rules were the final push needed to convince them.

[PhDhawk]

I have seen recent lists where Self wasn't even ranked 1st or 2nd in active head coaches.

Done engaging on the current completely contrived argument.

So, a positive tangent, doesn't an active (in 2023) coaching Mount Rushmore look something like:

Izzo
Self
Calipari
Boeheim(?)

Does Pitino count?

[PhDhawk]

Oh, Jay Wright.