Radicalization

[ousdahl]

I expect big things outta this thread you guys.

Been meaning to start it for a while.

So a while back I found myself going down that rabbit hole of sorts, just like lobster. I was taking interest in fringe sort of media.

But unlike lobster, I recognized it as fringe. I think I maintained a certain awareness about it, and still evaluated things critically and objectively, not just self-fulfillingly.

Rather than go all in on nazi message boreds, I followed gram pages like puppers.against.capitalism, but with a grain of salt.

I felt like they made good points and seemed to affirm attitudes I held all along, but I also realized it’s nothing more than a meme page, albeit with puppers too.

But yeah, I wanted to invite you guys to call me out before I get too radicalized and stuff. (Then again, I think my stances are usually pretty reasonable, and it’s the system itself that was radical all along, but maybe that’s just the memes talking.)

Or perhaps I wanted a bigger discussion on radicalization, self-affirming media, the whole lot.

Have at it you guys!

[jhawks99]

I'm kind of afraid to ask, but what's a pupper?

[ousdahl]

Internet slang for a doggo.

Which is also Internet slang, fuck.

It’s a domestic canine

[Deleted User 89]

dog

[Deleted User 89]

i’ll say this in regard to rabbit holes and radicalization

DC called me out years ago for the sources i was citing. since then, i’ve made a conscious effort to diversify the sources i read. i intentionally stay away from cnn, msnbc, and fauxnews...and obviously wouldn’t touch newsmax, breitbart or oan with a 10’ pole

recently, i was curious about the echo chamber effect, so i did some research to see which news outlets were objectively the least biased. if i recall, abcnews, newsweek and usatoday were some of the least biased

[TDub]

Im torn because i understand the nees for capitalism at this point and the benefits. But, i hate the chains with which it binds. Long gone are the hopes and dreams of free living.

Where we differ, ous, is that i believe a move toward socialism further tightens those chains, not the opposite utopia that is perpetuated in the puff pieces of the college dropout.

[Overlander]

Im torn because i understand the nees for capitalism at this point and the benefits. But, i hate the chains with which it binds. Long gone are the hopes and dreams of free living.

Where we differ, ous, is that i believe a move toward socialism further tightens those chains, not the opposite utopia that is perpetuated in the puff pieces of the college dropout.

I used to consider myself conservative, especially fiscally. You know, Republican.

As I grow older, I find myself socially liberal, and fiscally concerned.

I don't see the Republican party ever getting my vote again, unless they can manage a 180 from simply grabbing all of the power at any cost. This Trumplican party literally scares me.

[TDub]

Im torn because i understand the nees for capitalism at this point and the benefits. But, i hate the chains with which it binds. Long gone are the hopes and dreams of free living.

Where we differ, ous, is that i believe a move toward socialism further tightens those chains, not the opposite utopia that is perpetuated in the puff pieces of the college dropout.

I used to consider myself conservative, especially fiscally. You know, Republican.

As I grow older, I find myself socially liberal, and fiscally concerned.

I don't see the Republican party ever getting my vote again, unless they can manage a 180 from simply grabbing all of the power at any cost. This Trumplican party literally scares me.

I'm more of a libertarian than anything i guess. Though noone is truly 100% anything. But i do favor freedoms over most things and I do favor lesser governmental influence over most things. Trump is an enigma that, somehow, harnessed and lighted a powder keg. I feel the blame for lighting the powder keg is on him, i believe the blame creating of the powder can be spread around far and wide, and with all "sides" contributing

[ousdahl]

TDub, good comments, can I ask you to elaborate? What are the needs/point/benefits of capitalism? What are the binding chains and the hindrance to free living?

And while I think both economic models have certain merits, I should say I’m not an expert economist, and don’t know the ins and outs of every time “socialism” has been applied. I think it’s vulnerable to the same issues capitalism faces, which is corruption in its various forms.

But what I advocate for, is an economic model that emphasizes conservation over consumption, and providing for communities over profiting for individuals. Pretty sure that’s “socialism” in theory, but let’s not get caught up on semantics.

Oh, and fiscal conservatism, lulz. Been a while since anyone even pretended that’s a thing

[Deleted User 89]

i could be wrong, but it seems like capitalism is an economic philosophy while socialism is a political one

(time to google)

[ousdahl]

Pretty sure socialism is an economic model, with the central theme being the workers own the means of production. In capitalism, the capitalists own the means, and the workers wait for the wealth to trickle down.

Put another way, socialist economic theory is like democratic political/governing theory. Capitalism is more like a dictatorship.

[Deleted User 89]

we’re both right (and both wrong?)

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/glos ... socialism/

[Deleted User 89]

i think Ousie’s biggest gripe with capitalism is that it isn’t at all concerned with equity, which is one of the hallmarks of socialism

could be wrong though

[ousdahl]

Yeah, pretty much.

That, and the whole issue that capitalism depends on constant consumption, when we need to think with a sense of conservation and sustainability

[TDub]

Why do you think less is consumed under socialism. What changes is who gets to decide what, who and how its consumed.

[twocoach]

Im torn because i understand the nees for capitalism at this point and the benefits. But, i hate the chains with which it binds. Long gone are the hopes and dreams of free living.

Where we differ, ous, is that i believe a move toward socialism further tightens those chains, not the opposite utopia that is perpetuated in the puff pieces of the college dropout.

It just depends on your definition of "free living". My assumption is that your definition would differ from mine and mine would differ from my buddy who lives on top of a mountain in Colorado.

Same with "socialism". You can have programs that are inherently "socialist" in nature while not being a socialist system. But we seem to live in a day and age of absolutes where if you are 1% of something then you're considered to be that something and there is no nuance allowed at all.

[Deleted User 89]

Yeah, pretty much.

That, and the whole issue that capitalism depends on constant consumption, when we need to think with a sense of conservation and sustainability

i think the consumption is a non-inherent flaw, and not a feature

if the market wants it, then in theory capitalism would provide, even for greater sustainability

if the masses quit buying non-recyclable products, i guarantee you that those products would cease to exist (except in landfills and the guts of whales)

[ousdahl]

Whoa, I’m twocoach’s buddy!

[Deleted User 89]

Whoa, I’m twocoach’s buddy!

i’d keep that to yourself

[zsn]

.
Long gone are the hopes and dreams of free living.

What are you not free to do? Please trust me that this is a serious question. There are certain costs to living in a community. One can argue about degrees but there are certain “freedoms” whose sensibilities have changed. But very often whenever someone expresses this sentiment it’s longing for when there were 5 million people west of the Mississippi.