Weather

[TDub]

I enjoy yard work. I also need greenery for my sanity. But, i also wouldn't live in south arizona or south nevada or california.

[ousdahl]

so how do change the minds of those who attitude is, “I live in Arizona (or Colorado!) but also want greenery so I’ll make it look like Kentucky and plant a buncha bluegrass” ?

[TDub]

You don't. Until the water is gone they won't care. Could get rid of the dams and water rights but that creates a whole host of other problems too

[ousdahl]

are the other options?

would a public awareness campaign go anywhere?

what if HOAs started prohibiting it, and requiring xeriscaping instead of planting midwestern grass in a western desert?

what if there were economic consequences such as, say, a yard watering tax?

[TDub]

Fuck HOAs...plus that only addresses communities with HOAs


Like so many other things why are you focused on the individual?

Focus on the golf courses, focus on the major corporations in Phoenix and LA that are consuming tremendous amounts of resources instead of the individual watering his garden.

[ousdahl]

I don't mean to focus only on the individual.

I suppose my thinking was, since golf courses and corporations are so motivated by market demand, get the markets to demand it.

if we could get these communities to speak up about it, they just might.

and that watering tax could just as quickly apply to golf courses and corporations.

[TDub]

I think thats backwards. Corporations move and people follow those jobs. Charging taxes on people isnt going to make people move if the jobs are still there.

[ousdahl]

but the end game isn't getting people to move. It's getting people to stop planting Kentucky bluegrass in Colorado. Individually, that's a small part of the equation, but it's still part of the equation.

and I'm all for reigning in corporations.

and golf courses! sorry illy.

and whether for an individual or a corporation, a water consumption tax would prob at least make them think twice.

[jhawks99]

My grass is fescue.

[Deleted User 863]

but the end game isn't getting people to move. It's getting people to stop planting Kentucky bluegrass in Colorado. Individually, that's a small part of the equation, but it's still part of the equation.

and I'm all for reigning in corporations.

and golf courses! sorry illy.

and whether for an individual or a corporation, a water consumption tax would prob at least make them think twice.

If it makes you feel better i assume most golf courses don't use public water because it would cost WAAAYYY too much.

Most have a pond they use to water the course. My course has a large pond that feeds into the pumphouse and also has pipes connecting smaller ponds to the larger one in case of long periods without rain so they can pump from smaller pond to main pond.

[ousdahl]

this is more about the desert west, where water is scarce, and ponds, or "public water," largely don't exist unless water is diverted from what used to be a mountain stream hundreds of miles away.

[TDub]

but the end game isn't getting people to move. It's getting people to stop planting Kentucky bluegrass in Colorado. Individually, that's a small part of the equation, but it's still part of the equation.

and I'm all for reigning in corporations.

and golf courses! sorry illy.

and whether for an individual or a corporation, a water consumption tax would prob at least make them think twice.

Eliminate desert farm subsidies, promote free land livestock grazing with non irrigated land. Tax corporations for water use. Take a look at eliminating non hydroelectric dams (and maybe even those). Revise water rights to go to people and away from corporations.

[ousdahl]

hi, I'm Merica. Have we met?

I'm on bored, don't get me wrong, I think we're actually agreeing here!

but in a land in which corporations ARE people, and often are the recipients of generous subsidies, and don't necessarily pay taxes either way, I dunno whether that's gonna fly.

[TDub]

Youre the socialist. You should be happy to be sharing your states resources with those that have none.

[TDub]

hi, I'm Merica. Have we met?

I'm on bored, don't get me wrong, I think we're actually agreeing here!

but in a land in which corporations ARE people, and often are the recipients of generous subsidies, and don't necessarily pay taxes either way, I dunno whether that's gonna fly.

They are recipients of subsidies because economic growth is important. Those subsidies provide them the ability to employ thousands of otherwise jobless people on that area. You have to change that if you dont want the resources to be depleted to nothing. Its a big change.

[ousdahl]

yeah, sure economic growth is important. but it must also be weighed against things like, whether we even have the natural resources to sustain the economic activity.

American capitalism is still caught up in some mindset that economic growth is good no matter what, and that infinite growth and infinite consumption can actually be sustained.

Oh, and that environmental impacts! Which have always taken and continue to take a back seat. Even with climate change finally getting more press nowadays, those impacts are still often met with doubt or even denial. And even if those impacts are acknowledged, they're not necessarily addressed in any more than a token way.

[ousdahl]

Youre the socialist. You should be happy to be sharing your states resources with those that have none.

aaand boom goes the dynamite.

good luck with your idea of taxing corporations, and of taking away corporate rights to give to people instead, comrade.

[TDub]

Are you just here to argue for arguments sake? Im just providing some options for how I think it could be done. It aibt gonna happen quickly and there isnt enough gain going to happen by taxing the individual to make that the solution.

[ousdahl]

Don’t mean to argue. Heck, I thought we were agreeing!


If there was any sass detected in that comment, it was done so in a way meant to illustrate the irony of a guy who wants to empower people at the expense of corporations, then turning around and calling me a socialist like it’s a bad thing.

[Deleted User 863]