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[Deleted User 89]

what is the prevalence of overgrazing in the US?

[ousdahl]

I’ve also heard from water conservation types that hoof prints degrade riparian habitat, and turn cold narrow stream channels into broad warm mud puddles

[TDub]

https://www.ndsu.edu/agriculture/ag-hub ... on-grazing

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 34187/full

[TDub]

what is the prevalence of overgrazing in the US?

Too high, hence why we should graze over more land with the same number of cattle

[Deleted User 89]

what is the prevalence of overgrazing in the US?

Too high, hence why we should graze over more land with the same number of cattle

1/4 of the planet’s land is used for grazing...i really don’t think clearing more land for that purpose is the solution

[TDub]

Whose asking you to clear land for it? There are vast open spaces that dont need cleared. Open those up for grazing, open more forest land up for grazing. Its mutually beneficial

[TDub]

There are Miles of farmland that could be grazed when the crops arent in them. Again, mutually beneficial.

[Deleted User 89]

what is the prevalence of overgrazing in the US?

Too high, hence why we should graze over more land with the same number of cattle

and you trust that with more available land, that the ranchers are going to be more responsible and just magically change their generations-old techniques?

jmo, but you’re kidding yourself if you think they aren’t just going to run more cattle (unless there are regulations in place)

if they can’t/won’t preserve what they already have access to, why do you think they’d all of a sudden start preserving when granted greater accesss to that resource?

[Deleted User 89]

There are Miles of farmland that could be grazed when the crops arent in them. Again, mutually beneficial.

when the crops aren’t in them it’s not like grass has just magically appeared. at least in my experience, when there aren’t crops the ground is tilled and the only thing growing is weeds

maybe it’s different in Oregon

[TDub]

You have solutions that arent going to require people to alter their generations old techniques? Lets hear em

[TDub]

There are Miles of farmland that could be grazed when the crops arent in them. Again, mutually beneficial.

when the crops aren’t in them it’s not like grass has just magically appeared. at least in my experience, when there aren’t crops the ground is tilled and the only thing growing is weeds

maybe it’s different in Oregon

You really need to watch that show i told you to check out. I cant remember what its called now but its about regenerative farming. You dont till, you let the stubble stay, the cattle graE the stubble and till the land and fertilize it as they move. Tiling is a wasted motion.

[Deleted User 89]

i’ve covered this before

most breeds of domesticated cattle are a huge part of the problem

long-horns and their kin are much less destructive, as are bison

i’d prefer the ranchers prove that they can be responsible with the resource before granting them access to more of it

[TDub]

Again I ask for your solutions that dont require generation old techniques to change.

[Deleted User 89]

There are Miles of farmland that could be grazed when the crops arent in them. Again, mutually beneficial.

when the crops aren’t in them it’s not like grass has just magically appeared. at least in my experience, when there aren’t crops the ground is tilled and the only thing growing is weeds

maybe it’s different in Oregon

You really need to watch that show i told you to check out. I cant remember what its called now but its about regenerative farming. You dont till, you let the stubble stay, the cattle graE the stubble and till the land and fertilize it as they move. Tiling is a wasted motion.

no, i get it

the issue is that most farmers and ranchers don’t practice such things...it’s why there’s still a problem

i know it CAN be done sustainably...but, by and large it isn’t being done

it’s no different than any other for-profit exercise. most people suck, and if they can get away with cutting corners in order to make an extra buck, they will

[Deleted User 89]

Again I ask for your solutions that dont require generation old techniques to change.

i don’t know what you want me to say

the style if ranching that has been practiced for generations isn’t sustainable

just like coal mines

or commercial fishing

you just want to provide more resources to the same system. i say the system itself is unsustainable.

rather than giving ranchers more access to PUBLIC land, how about a mandate to use less-destructive varieties or species?

personally, i’m not a fan of hiking and camping and having to deal with the ramifications if cattle grazing

how about ranchers just run less cattle? i have no problem paying a bit more for beef, and having it as a treat (or not at all), rather than a staple

[Deleted User 89]

you just seem so set in maintaining the status quo and way of life

i’m of the opinion that such a thing is no longer possible, lest we continue down the rabbit hole of destruction to this planet

[TDub]

Again I ask for your solutions that dont require generation old techniques to change.

i don’t know what you want me to say

the style if ranching that has been practiced for generations isn’t sustainable

just like coal mines

or commercial fishing

you just want to provide more resources to the same system. i say the system itself is unsustainable.

rather than giving ranchers more access to PUBLIC land, how about a mandate to use less-destructive varieties or species?

personally, i’m not a fan of hiking and camping and having to deal with the ramifications if cattle grazing

how about ranchers just run less cattle? i have no problem paying a bit more for beef, and having it as a treat (or not at all), rather than a staple

Im talking about changing our approach to ranching. Youre the one stuck on maintaining the status quo. You havent provided any solutions, but you sure have shot down potentials. Consume less, eat less beef is just as much if not more of a vhange to generations old techniques as my proposal.

[Deleted User 89]

Again I ask for your solutions that dont require generation old techniques to change.

i don’t know what you want me to say

the style if ranching that has been practiced for generations isn’t sustainable

just like coal mines

or commercial fishing

you just want to provide more resources to the same system. i say the system itself is unsustainable.

rather than giving ranchers more access to PUBLIC land, how about a mandate to use less-destructive varieties or species?

personally, i’m not a fan of hiking and camping and having to deal with the ramifications if cattle grazing

how about ranchers just run less cattle? i have no problem paying a bit more for beef, and having it as a treat (or not at all), rather than a staple

Im talking about changing our approach to ranching. Youre the one stuck on maintaining the status quo. You havent provided any solutions, but you sure have shot down potentials. Consume less, eat less beef is just as much if not more of a vhange to generations old techniques as my proposal.

please explain how i’m stuck on the status quo

you seem to not like my solutions because they’re inconvenient for the ‘murican lifestyle...after all, beef is what’s for dinner, right?

i’m trying to get at the root of most environmental issues - consumption, both specific patterns and general excess. i don’t see how your solution does anything to address that root issue, but rather just kicks the can down the road until the population and demand catches up to the expanded grazing land and cattle population

and i’m still curious as to how ranchers, the majority of which overgraze, are going to be compelled to change. i’m assuming it’s the majority, otherwise there wouldn’t be an overgrazing issue, but perhaps i’m wrong

[Deleted User 89]

Capetown, SA...a cautionary tale

https://radiowest.kuer.org/post/megadro ... -2-present

[TDub]

i don’t know what you want me to say

the style if ranching that has been practiced for generations isn’t sustainable

just like coal mines

or commercial fishing

you just want to provide more resources to the same system. i say the system itself is unsustainable.

rather than giving ranchers more access to PUBLIC land, how about a mandate to use less-destructive varieties or species?

personally, i’m not a fan of hiking and camping and having to deal with the ramifications if cattle grazing

how about ranchers just run less cattle? i have no problem paying a bit more for beef, and having it as a treat (or not at all), rather than a staple

Im talking about changing our approach to ranching. Youre the one stuck on maintaining the status quo. You havent provided any solutions, but you sure have shot down potentials. Consume less, eat less beef is just as much if not more of a vhange to generations old techniques as my proposal.

please explain how i’m stuck on the status quo

you seem to not like my solutions because they’re inconvenient for the ‘murican lifestyle...after all, beef is what’s for dinner, right?

i’m trying to get at the root of most environmental issues - consumption, both specific patterns and general excess. i don’t see how your solution does anything to address that root issue, but rather just kicks the can down the road until the population and demand catches up to the expanded grazing land and cattle population

and i’m still curious as to how ranchers, the majority of which overgraze, are going to be compelled to change. i’m assuming it’s the majority, otherwise there wouldn’t be an overgrazing issue, but perhaps i’m wrong

You said it right in your response. You cant see how they will change. My point being that they are as likely or more likely to change as anyone else. Something has to change to accommodate future survival. My opinion this is a comparatively easy change when compared to reimagining entire structures of society.

You find it hard to believe but I kbow ranchers that are actively pursuing these changes and working wirh farmers to achieve qaya to be more efficient and sustainable and thus more profitable.

That benefits us more than reseaignibf infrastructure and/or relocating millions of people and/or imposing incredible and drastic life changing restrictions on millions.