COVID-19 - On the Ground

[PhDhawk]

You put thoughts into words very well. Couldn’t agree more with a lot of that.

[ousdahl]

No offense, but trying to point to hippies and RFK jr in the context of covid vaccinations seems like some exercise in both sidesing.

Besides, didn’t we already discuss the whole hippie anti-vaxxer thing?

Even if you add up all the hippie type anti vaxxers and RFK, that still only accounts for a small number among the collective “left.”

And Im pretty sure you’re familiar with the anti-vax sentiments and vaccination rates having quite a disparity when comparing party affiliation or political ideologies.

And yeah there’s not monolithic anti-vaxxer, but the collective bunch of them seem to hang disproportionately on one side of the aisle these days.

If there is an exception, it may be along some lines of race, but Randy says we ain’t allowed to bring that up no more.

[Deleted User 863]

You put thoughts into words very well. Couldn’t agree more with a lot of that.

I can't wait to learn how to post gifs and memes on here!

[ousdahl]

Also be glad I didn’t make a joke that hippies don’t need to be vaxxed cuz they already developed immunity after being exposed to wook flu on Phish tour

[Deleted User 863]

Even if you add up all the hippie type anti vaxxers and RFK, that still only accounts for a small number among the collective “left.”

Black people are one of the most vaccine hesitant demographics out there (understandably so). Many of them are on the left, no?

Conspiracy theories come from both sides. Even you've shared conspiracies about the rich/elite here before.

It's just harder for you (not you specifically) to flag something as a conspiracy theory if it comes from your side because thats you side and you agree with your side.

[ousdahl]

I don’t doubt conspiracies can come from both sides, but still trying to keep my perspectives open here.

What are some examples of “far left”conspiracies? Do these examples get the same traction as ones that tend to be more “far right?”

What have I shared about rich elites that you consider to be a conspiracy?

[PhDhawk]

No offense, but trying to point to hippies and RFK jr in the context of covid vaccinations seems like some exercise in both sidesing.

Besides, didn’t we already discuss the whole hippie anti-vaxxer thing?

Even if you add up all the hippie type anti vaxxers and RFK, that still only accounts for a small number among the collective “left.”

And Im pretty sure you’re familiar with the anti-vax sentiments and vaccination rates having quite a disparity when comparing party affiliation or political ideologies.

And yeah there’s not monolithic anti-vaxxer, but the collective bunch of them seem to hang disproportionately on one side of the aisle these days.

If there is an exception, it may be along some lines of race, but Randy says we ain’t allowed to bring that up no more.

The anti-vaxx doesn't fall along party lines, or at least it didn't.

So, now, at least for some, it's about owning the libs more than it is some bullshit about vaccines causing autism (which has been proven false time and again). And how do you account for the idiots like randy, who spew anti-vax propoganda, but claim to not be anti-vax, or even have gotten the vax themselves? Are they anti-vaxxers or are they just towing the party line?

I tend to think that if you spread false information scaring people away from a vaccine, then you're anti-vaxx. But in the very least anti-vaxxers come in different flavors.

What will be interesting is what happens next? How will people react to mRNA flu vaccines, or an HIV vaccine? Will it fall along the lines that is has for Covid19 vaccines, or will it return to being something that truly doesn't follow political lines? We'll see.

But I think you're wrong with your take that anti-vaxxers were a small number of libtards...It was, ans probably is still, a significant number.

[PhDhawk]

I don’t doubt conspiracies can come from both sides, but still trying to keep my perspectives open here.

What are some examples of “far left”conspiracies? Do these examples get the same traction as ones that tend to be more “far right?”

What have I shared about rich elites that you consider to be a conspiracy?

The extent to which russia had control over Trump. I'm pretty sure most libs would believe just about anything they were told about Putin having leverage on Trump.

There were a lot of Dems who thought the 2000 and 2016 elections were frauds.

I think with things like environmental issues, Dems would be more likely to believe in conspiracies and nefarious plots.

Half of Sparko's political posts.

Those are some examples.

But then you have shit like the moon landing is fake, or that fluoride in the water is for mind control that I don't think are unique to one party. Or, before now, anti-vax.

[Deleted User 887]

Truthfully as a white person I do not get to decide those things. Nor should I.

And thats exactly why when it's the white liberals doing the racism labeling that it makes my eyes roll.

For the most part white people can't relate or understand the types of racism people of color face in out country (particularly black people). The best thing to do is listen, learn, and be an ally when needed.

I like your response.
Here is another difficult question in relation to it.
The past year and a quarter I spent many hours speaking with and listening to "people of color" discussing racism and what they have experienced. It was enlightening. Upsetting at times and uplifting at times. That being said, NOT ONCE did I hear ANYONE calling out those "of color" who have given "people of color" a bad name. I found that very surprising. Why do YOU think they didn't? I don't think there is a definitive right or wrong answer to my question.

Getting back to Covid on the ground.......
I know I sound like a broken record but I am somewhat distraught right now that WE (our country as a whole) are going backwards. You would think by now people would be worn out from all this Covid shit and want to do anything and everything possible to get rid of it. Nope, we live in the ME generation and too many people just don't give a damn about how Covid has and is continuing to affect others.

First part: i think that's totally subjective to whoever you were speaking to. I also think that when discussing racism it doesn't always have to be/shouldn't be a "yeah but" discussion. For example someone says racism is bad and someone else replies "yeah but what about black on black crime". Thats unproductive. Racism is the topic at hand. We don't go to a cancer seminar and say "yeah but what about diabetes".

From my experience black people absolutely hate the black on black crime just as much as they hate police brutality issues or as much as they hate racism issues. But they're independent topics even if they're related in various ways.

And every black person has a unique experience. Some black people claim they've never experienced racism. Others experience it daily. All lived experiences are relevant, worthwhile, and deserve respect/consideration.

Second part: i am worried too, but we aren't necessarily going backwards. Death rates and hospitalization rates will continue to improve because the vaccines work and our treatmemt is improving. Unfortunately, the virus is likely here to stay in some capacity and it's very likely we will need to continue to get vaccinated yearly. That's okay. Not ideal, but it may be reality.

I think most people care about others. There is a vocal minority that is adamantly against vaccines. They're smaller than they appear because it's not ALL unvaccinated people who subscribe to that line of thinking. Some unvaccinated people are scared or unsure, but not actively campaigning against people getting vaccinated. I am okay if those people are hesitant. I wouldn't invite them into my house, but i choose not to ridicule or shame them. I was hesitant to get the vaccine too at first. I still probably wouldn't let either of my kids get the vaccine yet if they were asked to participate in the ongoing trials (ages 4 and 7). I'd rather keep them socially distanced and wearing masks for now....but when the time is right and the science says it's safe for their age group then they will likely get it.

I know its hard to stay positive in these uncertain times gutter. And even more scary for you since i know your main concern is not yourself, but your mother and family who can't get vaccinated or are immunocomprimised. My older parents are the main reason i chose to get vaccinated as well even though i am aware that statistically covid poses very little threat to me.

Stay positive as much as you can. You will get through this one way or another.

I appreciate your response.

I agree it's subjective and I agree we can't always use "whataboutisms" but I do feel ALL aspects need to be addressed. I don't blame those I spoke with for not mentioning negative behavior/s as much as I blame myself for not asking them how they feel about those who show/express negative behavior/s.

You said, "And every black person has a unique experience. Some black people claim they've never experienced racism. Others experience it daily. All lived experiences are relevant, worthwhile, and deserve respect/consideration."
My response - Perfectly said.

Second part- Yeah, "going backwards" is a poor choice of words but I am currently dealing with an absolutely piss poorly run situation in my office and I feel we are going backwards in regards to rules, requirements, protocols. It's extremely aggravating and frustrating to me that there is no right or wrong in regards to preparations for a somewhat full "return to office" being that there is the "unknown/s". I would just love to have some clarity right now.

We are all different. I'm not someone who is chastising the unvaccinated but I am someone who feels they should respect those who are - if they want to be respected too.

For ME, I live in a building with 46 floors of apartments. 13 apartments on each floor. Possibly 600 people living in the building right now. We all ride the elevators together. I can't control others. Two days ago there was a woman unmasked who must of sniffled 10 times between the 50th floor and the ground floor. I assume she just had the sniffles but what the fuck do I know? I admit it, I felt uncomfortable.
So the only thing I can do in the future is to wear a mask if I am uncomfortable being in an elevator with unmasked people who show signs of being ill - or I can get off the elevator and wait for another one. I guess I could walk the stairs too but my fat out of shape ass would have a tough time walking up 50 flights of stairs.

I work in an office in which "normally" there are 300+ employees.
Yesterday there was an unvaccinated employee who I was working with. She really shouldn't have been working in the office based on our company's current "rules" but they have made an exception for her. That's fine and dandy but while she is required to wear a mask in the office, it was pulled below her nose. We are all adults so we don't have anyone in the office to "enforce" the rules but come on! Let's all do what we are asked/required to do. This is people's health and well being we are dealing with.

I'm also in much need of a vacation. Since my last vacation I have dealt with the death and burial of my brother in law, a hospitalized sister, a hospitalized mother, my own health issues, work bullshit, etc.
Right when things were looking bright, I made reservations to go to California for a week in September and do the things I enjoy doing. Such as attend a football game, go to a music fest, dine in a few nice restaurants, go to museums, etc. Then when I hear/read about how mask mandates have gone in to affect and how a few events have been canceled. I can't help but think, say, and ask - FUCK - what's next and is it going to get worse? Seems the correct answer is - probably.
Sucks.

[ousdahl]

I don’t doubt conspiracies can come from both sides, but still trying to keep my perspectives open here.

What are some examples of “far left”conspiracies? Do these examples get the same traction as ones that tend to be more “far right?”

What have I shared about rich elites that you consider to be a conspiracy?

The extent to which russia had control over Trump. I'm pretty sure most libs would believe just about anything they were told about Putin having leverage on Trump.

There were a lot of Dems who thought the 2000 and 2016 elections were frauds.

I think with things like environmental issues, Dems would be more likely to believe in conspiracies and nefarious plots.

Half of Sparko's political posts.

Those are some examples.

But then you have shit like the moon landing is fake, or that fluoride in the water is for mind control that I don't think are unique to one party. Or, before now, anti-vax.

Conspiracy is defined as “a secret plan to do something that is harmful or unlawful”

So how is the whole Russia thing a conspiracy - at least in the context of leftists? I guess you perceive it as a witch-hunt; just some plot to make Trump look bad? What if there is some Russia connection? Heck, even the Russians have admitted as much. The Mueller report is still largely redacted too.

And yeah the Dems fussed about the 00 and 16 elections, but did they actually plot anything that was harmful or unlawful? I remember some pussies saying we shouldn’t certify the electoral votes or whatever, but I don’t recall any of that shit actually going down.

Regarding environmental issues, many on the right think things like climate change are just a lib hoax, but what’s the left’s conspiratorial angle?

And trying to keep this not too pols boredy and on topic here - do you perceive any message or rhetoric from the left as some plan to do something harmful or unlawful in the context of covid vaccinations? Or of public health precautions such as masks?

[ousdahl]

[Deleted User 863]

I appreciate your response.

I agree it's subjective and I agree we can't always use "whataboutisms" but I do feel ALL aspects need to be addressed. I don't blame those I spoke with for not mentioning negative behavior/s as much as I blame myself for not asking them how they feel about those who show/express negative behavior/s.

You said, "And every black person has a unique experience. Some black people claim they've never experienced racism. Others experience it daily. All lived experiences are relevant, worthwhile, and deserve respect/consideration."
My response - Perfectly said.

Second part- Yeah, "going backwards" is a poor choice of words but I am currently dealing with an absolutely piss poorly run situation in my office and I feel we are going backwards in regards to rules, requirements, protocols. It's extremely aggravating and frustrating to me that there is no right or wrong in regards to preparations for a somewhat full "return to office" being that there is the "unknown/s". I would just love to have some clarity right now.

We are all different. I'm not someone who is chastising the unvaccinated but I am someone who feels they should respect those who are - if they want to be respected too.

For ME, I live in a building with 46 floors of apartments. 13 apartments on each floor. Possibly 600 people living in the building right now. We all ride the elevators together. I can't control others. Two days ago there was a woman unmasked who must of sniffled 10 times between the 50th floor and the ground floor. I assume she just had the sniffles but what the fuck do I know? I admit it, I felt uncomfortable.
So the only thing I can do in the future is to wear a mask if I am uncomfortable being in an elevator with unmasked people who show signs of being ill - or I can get off the elevator and wait for another one. I guess I could walk the stairs too but my fat out of shape ass would have a tough time walking up 50 flights of stairs.

I work in an office in which "normally" there are 300+ employees.
Yesterday there was an unvaccinated employee who I was working with. She really shouldn't have been working in the office based on our company's current "rules" but they have made an exception for her. That's fine and dandy but while she is required to wear a mask in the office, it was pulled below her nose. We are all adults so we don't have anyone in the office to "enforce" the rules but come on! Let's all do what we are asked/required to do. This is people's health and well being we are dealing with.

I'm also in much need of a vacation. Since my last vacation I have dealt with the death and burial of my brother in law, a hospitalized sister, a hospitalized mother, my own health issues, work bullshit, etc.
Right when things were looking bright, I made reservations to go to California for a week in September and do the things I enjoy doing. Such as attend a football game, go to a music fest, dine in a few nice restaurants, go to museums, etc. Then when I hear/read about how mask mandates have gone in to affect and how a few events have been canceled. I can't help but think, say, and ask - FUCK - what's next and is it going to get worse? Seems the correct answer is - probably.
Sucks.

Can't imagine the anxiety living/working in Chicago in that packed environment full of people.

We have policies at work as well. Unvaccinated people are supposed to wear masks. We have 2 people who wear them. I assume they are the only 2 who haven't gotten their vaccine. Neither plan to. 1 already had covid. Both are 50+. Doesn't make much sense to me. We only have maybe 12 people in my office, and when i am there i keep my door closed.

It's frustrating for sure. I sympathize with your situation because in many cases (elevators, big offices) you're just at the mercy of the virus gods. It's extremely selfish that your coworker(s) aren't more aware of their rudeness. It's also shitty that your company made rules but doesn't enforce them. Sounds like the rules were more for show than safety of employees.

Hopefully your vacation works out and you're able to do some/most of what you're planning on doing.

[twocoach]

Yeah, but the members of either team who ignore evidence are equally as stupid.

You don't get points for being an anti-vaxxer but agreeing with Ousdahl on social issues.

But whether race or pandemic, the “stupid” comes from essentially the same sort of ignorance and unwillingness to seek understanding.

I think there's more to it than that. There's an anti-intellectualism, that I think is mostly right-wing. But there's also a thought that "I'm smarter than everyone, in spite of having no training, and only I am aware of this nugget of information" that causes people to seek out alternative explanations for things, and fall for conspiracies, I don't think that's something that falls down political lines. The whole, I have a secret that no one else knows, that people like lobster has aren't separated out by politics, he happens to be right wing, but I think it exists along the spectrum.

There may also be a reverse causal relationship to some of this. You might not question something that's obviously true because you're a republican. But you might be a republican because you question everything. So the party who's more skeptical of authority appeals to you for the same reason that not believing data appeals to you.

The "I'm young and invincible" crowd also does not fall on any one particular party line either.

[PhDhawk]

I don’t doubt conspiracies can come from both sides, but still trying to keep my perspectives open here.

What are some examples of “far left”conspiracies? Do these examples get the same traction as ones that tend to be more “far right?”

What have I shared about rich elites that you consider to be a conspiracy?

The extent to which russia had control over Trump. I'm pretty sure most libs would believe just about anything they were told about Putin having leverage on Trump.

There were a lot of Dems who thought the 2000 and 2016 elections were frauds.

I think with things like environmental issues, Dems would be more likely to believe in conspiracies and nefarious plots.

Half of Sparko's political posts.

Those are some examples.

But then you have shit like the moon landing is fake, or that fluoride in the water is for mind control that I don't think are unique to one party. Or, before now, anti-vax.

Conspiracy is defined as “a secret plan to do something that is harmful or unlawful”

So how is the whole Russia thing a conspiracy - at least in the context of leftists? I guess you perceive it as a witch-hunt; just some plot to make Trump look bad? What if there is some Russia connection? Heck, even the Russians have admitted as much. The Mueller report is still largely redacted too.

And yeah the Dems fussed about the 00 and 16 elections, but did they actually plot anything that was harmful or unlawful? I remember some pussies saying we shouldn’t certify the electoral votes or whatever, but I don’t recall any of that shit actually going down.

Regarding environmental issues, many on the right think things like climate change are just a lib hoax, but what’s the left’s conspiratorial angle?

And trying to keep this not too pols boredy and on topic here - do you perceive any message or rhetoric from the left as some plan to do something harmful or unlawful in the context of covid vaccinations? Or of public health precautions such as masks?

Trump/Russia is Def real, but there are Dems who believe ANYTHING on that front.

Environment: govt intentionally poisoning us with heavy metals for mind control.

I get it ousy. You can spin any response to make team ousey seem less bad, or whatever and you can feel good about yourself again. But I answered your question about leftists having their own whacky conspiracy type theories. But feel free to explain how team ousey does it better.

The craziest shit I ever heard from the left was that rich people conspired to be pro-life to ensure they had future generations of cheap labor. That's dumber that the flat earthers.

[Deleted User 863]

The craziest shit I ever heard from the left was that rich people conspired to be pro-life to ensure they had future generations of cheap labor. That's dumber that the flat earthers.

I've been waiting for you to bust that out for hours.....well played.

[randylahey]

Theres also the group or people who are pro vaccine but anti this vaccine. Because of the manner it was rushed out and the way this whole situation reeks of big government

[randylahey]

The craziest shit I ever heard from the left was that rich people conspired to be pro-life to ensure they had future generations of cheap labor. That's dumber that the flat earthers.

I've been waiting for you to bust that out for hours.....well played.

If the right wanted cheap labor they wouldn't be about building a wall. But the left wants more open borders lol hmm

[randylahey]

But most people that won't want the covid vaccine is because it once again boils down to the fact if you are relatively healthy covid poses almost 0 risk to you

[PhDhawk]

Theres also the group or people who are pro vaccine but anti this vaccine. Because of the manner it was rushed out and the way this whole situation reeks of big government

but that's also not really true.

They had a head start from the previous research done on SARS and MERS which are closely related.

mRNA vaccines were the next wave of vaccines long before the pandemic and companies had the protocols ready and were planning how to use them.

The only thing the govt did was give enough money to these companies so that they could do their checks in parallel instead of sequentially. They didn't skip ANY steps. The only risks to doing it this way are financial. Which is why the govt paid money, and why it's not normally done this way.

[PhDhawk]

But most people that won't want the covid vaccine is because it once again boils down to the fact if you are relatively healthy covid poses almost 0 risk to you

That's not true.